Random Figure Skating Questions

jace93 said:

Just wondering... Some of you know what are the plans of Nathan Chen for this fall? because I've looked through the standings for the jgp and I didn't see his name, but I also don't see his name on the Senior grand prix circuit, probably I'm just stupid and wasn't able to find it, but if someone could enlighten me it would be very much appreciated...

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He said in the US Skating magazine I think? two issues ago? that he's going to be doing JGP (you're not stupid, I haven't been able to find him on the entry lists either) but will be competing on the senior level domestically (as shown by his passing of the senior free skate few weeks back).

On the subject of US Juniors,the last I heard of Vincent Zhou was that he was taking a "different path" (after an injury caused him to miss the 13-14 season). Does anyone have any updates on his situation? :no: I really enjoyed watching him and I do hope he'll give it another chance since he has so much potential.

Is there a reason that we see Tano arms and Rippon arms on Lutzs but not many other jumps with the changed arm position. Is there something about the approach to a Lutz vs a flip that makes it more logical/acceptable/easier/etc? Is it just a points thing? I do think i recall seeing Ashley Wagner toss up the Rippon arms on a jump sequence 1 or two years ago, which i would assume was not a Lutz.

StitchMonkey said:

Is there a reason that we see Tano arms and Rippon arms on Lutzs but not many other jumps with the changed arm position. Is there something about the approach to a Lutz vs a flip that makes it more logical/acceptable/easier/etc? Is it just a points thing? I do think i recall seeing Ashley Wagner toss up the Rippon arms on a jump sequence 1 or two years ago, which i would assume was not a Lutz.

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Hmm, I'm not sure why to be honest. Yuzuru does a 3A+2T with arms up (but yet 15 seconds earlier in the program he'll do a 3A+3T without arms up..). Yuna had one arm up for the 2Lo in her 2A-2T-2Lo combo. No non-Lutz triple jump is coming to my mind as an example, sorry. I'm sure the ease in which a skater can get the rotation comes into play.

Only thing that comes to my mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZGDHfGwz0

Another example on double jumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcn4P3NBylQ&t=1m10s

As i don't usually watch gymnastics and now watched some i was wondering:

1) is the scoring system similar with figure skating?

2) are the gymnasts (girls) a bit bigger and more muscular than the figure skaters or is it just a illusion cause there're outfits are so overly tight.... why on earth is this.....?!

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

supsu said:

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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Terry Gannon at Skate Canada said that when Yulia Lipnitskaia was younger she initially started in gymnastics, though not sure how seriously (or if true) considering she started skating at the age of 4.

supsu said:

As i don't usually watch gymnastics and now watched some i was wondering:

1) is the scoring system similar with figure skating?

2) are the gymnasts (girls) a bit bigger and more muscular than the figure skaters or is it just a illusion cause there're outfits are so overly tight.... why on earth is this.....?!

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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1. It has some similarities in that elements have a value. . .so more difficult stuff is worth more. . . sorta like jumps. . .others likely know more than me.

2. I am not sure figure skaters need the same upper body strength that gymnasts do. Gymnasts have to do stuff like bars. . . which is all upper body, so that would partly make them larger due to more muscle.

3. Surya Bonaly and Sasha_Cohen are others that used to do it. Jason Brown sends out pics from training at a gym on occasion, it seems to be an ongoing training thing for him.

supsu said:

As i don't usually watch gymnastics and now watched some i was wondering:

1) is the scoring system similar with figure skating?

2) are the gymnasts (girls) a bit bigger and more muscular than the figure skaters or is it just a illusion cause there're outfits are so overly tight.... why on earth is this.....?!

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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1)There's 2 parts like in figure skating, but in gymnastics the first part is difficulty(D score) which is more like the base value in FS. The second score is the execution score which is what it sounds like (sort of includes GOE, and components-esque stuff) however, this counts down (vs. the counting up in FS) so judges will deduct for error.

2) I think gymnasts are more top-heavy, and FS are more bottom(legs also core) heavy. However, not all girl gymnasts have bigger torsos(it might depend on their specialty but I'm not sure), but probably still bigger than FS.

supsu said:

As i don't usually watch gymnastics and now watched some i was wondering:

1) is the scoring system similar with figure skating?

2) are the gymnasts (girls) a bit bigger and more muscular than the figure skaters or is it just a illusion cause there're outfits are so overly tight.... why on earth is this.....?!

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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1. A bit similar. A score is based on the combination of the difficulty (D-score) and execution (E-score) of a routine, much like a technical and component score in FS. Each jump, leap, tumble, and spin is given a difficulty level (A=0.1, B=0.2, etc.). Each routine has a required number of elements, much like the SP and FP and you are not allowed to repeat an element if you miss it like in FS. Everyone starts at a 10 for an E-score and are then deducted from that, not added.

99% of the time, a routine is planned in advance and the judges know what you plan to execute beforehand, although you don't get deducted if you change things around as long as it fits the requirements. Choreography and interpretation are factored into the execution score for the floor exercise. One thing that is not factored in the score is the costume/uniform (which is always a leotard).

2. Gymnasts are in general, much, much smaller than figure skaters (4'11"-5'02"). Lipnitskaia would be on the verge of being tall for a gymnast. McKayla Maroney and Kyla Ross at 5'4" are considered very tall while Sandra Izbasa at 5'6" is a giant (tallest gymnast to win an Olympic gold medal, and she did it twice at different Olympics!). You really don't see female gymnasts taller than that due to the biomechanical demands of gymnastics that doesn't allow routines for tall people to be feasible.

Gymnasts are much more muscular than figure skaters, though. Look at Shawn Johnson: she was barely 4'8" when she won gold in Beijing, but she is jacked. An article perfectly describes why gymnasts are bulkier than the leaner figure skaters:

‘In gymnastics, shorter, muscular gymnasts tend to be better at flipping; thinner gymnasts twist more easily. Each selects her skills accordingly. The same physics applies in skating, except that there are no flips on the ice (unless you’re Surya Bonaly). Every skater has to twist. This means everyone has to be thin, which means every top-flight figure skater has a similarly lean figure.’

As for why they're leotards are so tight... I have no answer. You haven't seen tight though until you've seen Catalina Ponor in her leotards. They be riding up in the back AND the front.

Amei said:

Terry Gannon at Skate Canada said that when Yulia Lipnitskaia was younger she initially started in gymnastics, though not sure how seriously (or if true) considering she started skating at the age of 4.

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I also read it, but Yulia denied that she ever was rhythmic gymnast girl. She do not understand why spread this false information.

supsu said:

As i don't usually watch gymnastics and now watched some i was wondering:

1) is the scoring system similar with figure skating?

2) are the gymnasts (girls) a bit bigger and more muscular than the figure skaters or is it just a illusion cause there're outfits are so overly tight.... why on earth is this.....?!

3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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In gimnastics competitons work two juries. "A" jury and "B" jury.

The A jury looks at the rutin and determine the the value of elements and the whole rutin. Every element has its value. Some elements are worth more in connections than if the gymnasts would perform them separately because those are much more difficult in connection. The gymnasts would get those marks if they do it flawlessly. There are compulsory elements ect. The B jury looks at the competiton and deducts points because of the errors. That is the final marks.

jace93 said:

Just wondering... Some of you know what are the plans of Nathan Chen for this fall? because I've looked through the standings for the jgp and I didn't see his name, but I also don't see his name on the Senior grand prix circuit, probably I'm just stupid and wasn't able to find it, but if someone could enlighten me it would be very much appreciated...

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jimeonji said:

He said in the US Skating magazine I think? two issues ago? that he's going to be doing JGP (you're not stupid, I haven't been able to find him on the entry lists either) but will be competing on the senior level domestically (as shown by his passing of the senior free skate few weeks back).

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Thx for the scoop on Nathan Chen, jimeonji.

I have looked up the article about him. It is in Skating magazine's June-July 2014 issue. The link below (from Skating magazine's blog) has a link to the full issue.

The article is on pp. 34-35:

supsu said:

...
3) are there (or has there been) elite skaters that used to be primarily in gymnastics and same question in opposite.

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Tessa Virtue and Max Aaron are among those who were active in gymnastics as young 'uns. My hunch is that other examples are a dime a dozen.

Didn't Sasha start off as a gymnast?

I was just checking the JGP Courchevel free dance protocols. I have seen step sequences as DiSt and CiSt. But on USA Lewis/Bye protocol I saw a thing called "SeSt". What does that mean and is it used only in juniors or in seniors too?

catchie said:

I was just checking the JGP Courchevel free dance protocols. I have seen step sequences as DiSt and CiSt. But on USA Lewis/Bye protocol I saw a thing called "SeSt". What does that mean and is it used only in juniors or in seniors too?

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SeSt = Serpentine Step Sequence

catchie said:

I was just checking the JGP Courchevel free dance protocols. I have seen step sequences as DiSt and CiSt. But on USA Lewis/Bye protocol I saw a thing called "SeSt". What does that mean and is it used only in juniors or in seniors too?

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Serpentine, and, yes it can be used in seniors, too.

What's the difference between "tano jump" and "rippon jump"? I know both of them has to do something with your arms over the head in jumps. And where do the names come from? Sorry if this has been explained earlier or somewhere else.

AnnaTheMusician said:

What's the difference between "tano jump" and "rippon jump"? I know both of them has to do something with your arms over the head in jumps. And where do the names come from? Sorry if this has been explained earlier or somewhere else.

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'Tano comes from Brian Boitano, who was known for his lutz with one arm over his head.

Rippon comes from Adam Rippon, who is known for his lutz with two (ETA, i.e., both ) arms over his head.

golden411 said:

'Tano comes from Brian Boitano, who was known for his lutz with one arm over his head.

Rippon comes from Adam Rippon, who is known for his lutz with two arms over his head.

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Thanks! :yay: