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Thread: Can Patrick Chan cope with the pressure of Olympic favouritism?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I think that at this point, not having a coach is a much bigger issue than pressure.
    Patrick seems to think he's at a point in his skating career where he doesn't need a coach anymore. That is the height of arrogance and stupidity. He's just happy that now he's the one calling the shots and not being pushed as hard as he was with Krall. Well that is all well and good but even the all time great skaters needed a coach and someone to push them.

  2. #32
    “Our blade takes us in the most amazing places.” skatingfan4ever's Avatar
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    The tone of this thread going forward will depend on how Patrick skates in the Grand Prix. If he skates well this season, all this griping won't be as much of an issue. On the other hand, if he has a season like last season, well, we all know how GS exploded after Worlds. I'm excited to see how everything plays out. Besides the skating, a lot depends on the judges and what scores they give out, and this is something that is out of the skaters' control.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I don't agree. Olympic favoritism means that reporters will be down your neck at all times at the Games, which can be very disruptive of your preparation process . Brian Orser did not deal well with this pressure, and even Kurt Browning faltered under it. So did Debi Thomas, and Midori Ito found the expectations quite crushing. Sometimes it is better to be a bit under the radar, like Liz Manley.

    Patrick Chan has the advantage that this is not his first Olympics, though.
    Oh, I meant the judges' favorite. But yes, no one does well under intense media pressure.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    The tone of this thread going forward will depend on how Patrick skates in the Grand Prix. If he skates well this season, all this griping won't be as much of an issue. On the other hand, if he has a season like last season, well, we all know how GS exploded after Worlds. I'm excited to see how everything plays out. Besides the skating, a lot depends on the judges and what scores they give out, and this is something that is out of the skaters' control.
    Yeah, the GP will play a huge role in his set-up to Sochi. That being said, you don't need to have a great GP season as long as you can get it together for Olympics/Worlds (see Denis Ten).

  5. #35
    “Our blade takes us in the most amazing places.” skatingfan4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yeah, the GP will play a huge role in his set-up to Sochi. That being said, you don't need to have a great GP season as long as you can get it together for Olympics/Worlds (see Denis Ten).
    That is true.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Firing a real skating coach so your girlfriend's mother who's not a real skating coach can take over will be why Patrick doesn't win a Gold medal.
    This is how I see it, and I was very disappointed at this decision. OK, so it wasn't really a firing, more like a demoting. With all of Krall's experience, expertise and history with Patrick, I imagine it was a slap in the face to have Kathy Johnson take over.

    Patrick at his best is incredible with his amazing skating skills and effortless quads. No other modern singles skater I have seen comes anywhere close--male or female. However, I don't think he will won Gold. His lack of an experienced coach, especially one who was instrumental to his success (Krall), I fear, is affecting him and will snowball with the pressure of the Olympics. I HOPE I am wrong. I have many other sentimental favourites, but when it comes to the pure skating aspect, no one mesmerizes me with their blades like he does.

  7. #37
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    Michelle Kwan had no coach for a while. Such strong opnions about another person. Hopefully we all focus on our own lives just the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Patrick seems to think he's at a point in his skating career where he doesn't need a coach anymore. That is the height of arrogance and stupidity. He's just happy that now he's the one calling the shots and not being pushed as hard as he was with Krall. Well that is all well and good but even the all time great skaters needed a coach and someone to push them.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Patrick seems to think he's at a point in his skating career where he doesn't need a coach anymore. That is the height of arrogance and stupidity. He's just happy that now he's the one calling the shots and not being pushed as hard as he was with Krall. Well that is all well and good but even the all time great skaters needed a coach and someone to push them.
    Well, who knows? He has gotten a world record setting SP without a technical coach. I think one might need to wait until after Sochi to make such assertion.

  9. #39
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Patrick seems to think he's at a point in his skating career where he doesn't need a coach anymore. That is the height of arrogance and stupidity.
    Who says he has no coach? Isn't Kathy Johnson his coach? There are many skaters who went without a coach including Kwan. So they are all arrogant and stupid? We don't train with them so how do you know what is going behind the scenes? Are they obligated to tell all? Why are you so obsessed with Patrick's coach? I have said this and I will say it again. Move on Jammers. Patrick has, Krall has, Patrick's family have, I have, and many of Patrick's fans have.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever
    The tone of this thread going forward will depend on how Patrick skates in the Grand Prix. If he skates well this season, all this griping won't be as much of an issue
    No, the griping won't stop. I have learnt from skating forums that whinging, howling, feet stomping, biitching, conspiracy theories are all very closely associated with this sport (unfortunately) Who knows who the next target will be when Patrick retires. Will see.

    A quote from a former elite skater: When you are up there, they will try to bring you down.

  10. #40
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    Fact checking:

    1. Patrick has a coach, who originally gave him the epiphany to land quads overnight, and he also consults with various experts and get inspirations from different champion athletes. He is always observing and seeking advice whenever he has a chance. E.g. He associates with Browning and Buttler, and the first time he met Stojko, he consulted him.

    2. While "coachless", Patrick podiumed at every competition he entered and ending the season with another Worlds title with a world record. IOW, he was the most successful Men skater in the world during this "coachless" period even with more and more skaters raising their standards.

    Krall was right for him at the time but whatever happened, everyone has moved on, with Patrick winning another World Championships the following season. Not to discredit her but Krall has not had a champion before or after Patrick, which means a skater's success is not entirely determined by the coach.

    Facts are not personal opinions and judgements, such as who is not a coach and who should win a competition. Who here giving all the criticisms and advice is qualified to coach a World Champion? And knows more than Patrick and his team including his family and Skate Canada, about him and his training? Obviously online armchair coaches don't know what qualifies a coach or an adviser to a top athlete.

  11. #41
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    Oh, come on, there is no chance this man won't win the gold medal. I'm with pangtongfan. He's got a fall cushion like nobody else I've ever seen.

    IF he falls/makes mistakes than once and still wins, and figure skating garnishes enough attention from the mainstream media and the casual fans get upset, I predict a new or revamped judging system. IF he skates clean, good for him, he'll deserve it.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post

    Krall was right for him at the time but whatever happened, everyone has moved on, with Patrick winning another World Championships the following season. Not to discredit her but Krall has not had a champion before or after Patrick, which means a skater's success is not entirely determined by the coach.
    Ironically, Krall is at Skate Canada at the moment with her student, Joshua Farris who had the second to last TES in the SP by messing up several jumps. Can we then infer Josh Farris doesn't have a real coach because he is not landing those jumps?

    Another interesting factoid is that Patrick Chan's PCS has really skyrocketed under Kathy Johnson's influence. His PCS have become not only higher but they are also somewhat consistent across competitions, whether it's good skate or bad. That's actually quite a bit more valuable to a skater strategically given how variable TES can be.

    As far as Chan's jumps are concerned, they are fine. The quality of his jumps have not significantly changed over the past few years, he still get very good GOE when he lands them. As for errors, men's skating seems to be going through a period where we are seeing more and more mistakes, likely due to increased risk taking. Some of it seem to be psychological. In any event, it is unlikely that any "technical coach" can do much about this.

    Finally, skaters will assemble a team that they feel most comfortable with. Kathy Johnson being Patrick Chan's girlfriend's mother may seem like an awkward or uncomfortable choice for some - just imagine how some people cringe when the word "mother-in-law" is mentioned. The fact is, everyone is different. Some skaters are coached by parents or siblings and some others want nothing but completely unrelated people on their coaching team. Hard to say there is one formula that works for everyone.

    There are benefits to surround yourself with independent advisors as well as having people who are emotionally invested in you. When you look at Hanyu, who sacrificed his comfortable entourage in Japan to move to Canada to live and train with 2 respected independent advisors - not sure it's working out for him. Many people have remarked that he seemed to have regressed so far compared to last season - a somewhat shocking development considering at his young age, he should progress not regress. Midori Ito's coach, Machiko Yamada, was practically her 2nd mother. Ito lived with her coach & family since she was a child. After she started to show incredible talent, many U.S. coaches have invited her to go train in the U.S., something she knew was not going to happen. I can't imagine Ito doing well leaving her comfortable entourage and go to the U.S. Asada tried to train with foreign coaches abroad, it really didn't work well for her and being homesick is cited as an issue.

    It seems to me, if some people are keen to find fault with Patrick Chan, there is really no lack of excuse in order to camouflage from the hater label.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I think that at this point, not having a coach is a much bigger issue than pressure.
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00007980.htm

    It would help to get the correct information first. ISU reported that Chan has a coach and even listed her name and no, it's not just a name that the ISU took from the phone book and randomly put it there either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00007980.htm

    It would help to get the correct information first. ISU reported that Chan has a coach and even listed her name and no, it's not just a name that the ISU took from the phone book and randomly put it there either.
    I think what people mean in saying Chan doesn't have a coach is that Kathy Johnson is not a technical coach. Her background is in modern dance, and she came to figure skating only after her own daughter started skating.

  15. #45
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    So far this season Chan is fine. It's all the other guys that have to turn it up a notch.

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