What are Aliona Savchenko & Robin Szolkowy's chances of winning the Olympic title?

sky_fly20 · Oct 26, 2013

Buttercup said:
S/S have a consistent 3F. The only way to get an element consistent is to attempt it; they seem to be getting closer with the 3A. D/R have very demanding programs - difficult jumps, difficult transitions and creative entries into elements.

No V/T program could have been called a masterpiece regardless of who skated it. This annoys me, because they are capable of so much more.

Stop being a boring uber. V/T have a lot to recommend them, but they are not superior, let alone vastly superior, to the rest of the top pairs. They mainly have the upper hand in getting top quality politikking.

If you don't like people to contradict you, don't come to a general discussion forum, or at least stick to the fan fest section.

aren't you just doing the same them, hoping for the worst for V/T because they can get their elements consistent
and shed the robbed wolf cry that S/S are robbed and vastly superior ? because I cannot name a thing or element S/S that you call as superior

were V/T being consistent a threat to the poor S/S that you ahve to resort to not doing big difficult elements ?

I will say it again their skills are big that even those experimental elements can even it, you'd really think a two footed 3A merits +3 GOE and gets full credit ?

If V/T have been consistent its not their fault nor resort to blaming them
get over it !

Fozzie Bear · Oct 26, 2013

Buttercup said:
I was super excited to see V/T when they first paired up and thought they had a lot of potential when they debuted together in 2011, but their boring (at best) and tacky (at worst) programs, unwillingness to challenge themselves, and the way they have been overmarked have combined to make them decidedly less appealing.

Thank you. This is exactly how I feel about them. Tatiana's gorgeous lines are wasted on the programs they do. I don't see how their PCS are justified.

You make some great points, Buttercup. But I suspect you'd be better off arguing with a wall...

Li'Kitsu · Oct 26, 2013

Fozzie Bear said:
But I suspect you'd be better off arguing with a wall...

Hey, at least Aliona doesn't have any weigth issues (yet :biggrin:

)

SimplyLex · Oct 26, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
S/S have average everything average twits, lifts maybe different but the air positionings are average and their throws are not that good compared to V/T
even if they attempt their two footed 3Axels. S/S wins as the most overrated pairs in history. its no use though you'll probably scream robbed regardless of their skates, lmao

God, who the hell are you? and who let you out of an insane asylum?

take it easy, this thread was an open discussion until you started torpeding everyone who dares to say V/T are not pair skating gods.

S/S have choreographically the most interesting and challenging programs I've seen in pairs skating. Their lifts are effortless, while with V/T I constantly have the impression they're going to fall or he's going to drop her. S/S's throw 3flip is nothing but amazing.

And re: big throws. You might (or might not, the crazy uber that you are) remember Tatiana used to skate with a guy named Stansialv Morozov. Now they had BIG throws. And BIG twists. And somehow that didn't make that pair OGM material.

Not saying they're not great. Just saying, there are other equally great couples out there and it would be nice if some of them could actually have a shot at that gold.

EVAMARIA · Oct 26, 2013

Buttercup said:
V/T lost that event in the SP, as they should have. S/S may not have been clean, but V/T were awful in the SP and left themselves too much to do.

No, height and coverage are not enough for +2 and 3 GOEs. You need at least four of the following for +2 and six for +3:
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) good position of man at release
3) good air position of lady
4) good extension on landing / creative exit
5) good speed, height, distance
6) good control and flow on the landing
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

Call me when V/T have a consistent 3F throw, let alone a 3A. At least S/S challenge themselves.

As I already noted, S/S do more difficult throws, and while the 3A is still a work in progress, their other throws are very good. They also put one at the very end of the LP, not three seconds after the halfway mark. They're fast and have very good skating skills, they skate harder and more original programs, while V/T are doing blah choreo with posing sections. I'd like to see V/T attempt an S/S or a D/R program, I doubt they'd look so amazing. They have some great elements, but if you pay attention to something other than the height of their twists, you'd notice that they are weaker than other teams in various areas.

If V/T weren't the top Russian pair going in to the Olympics in Russia after no Russian pairs had medalled at the Olympics in the previous games (for the first time in decades), their PCS would not be in the mid to upper 9s and their GOEs might come closer to reflecting what they're doing.

I was super excited to see V/T when they first paired up and thought they had a lot of potential when they debuted together in 2011, but their boring (at best) and tacky (at worst) programs, unwillingness to challenge themselves, and the way they have been overmarked have combined to make them decidedly less appealing.

thank you buttercup for the info about what makes a great throw jump

, for the rest I totally agree

))

Jammers · Oct 26, 2013

D/R just got beat and finished 3rd at Skate Canada so the Bronze is now he more wide open i think.

sky_fly20 · Oct 26, 2013

Jammers said:
D/R just got beat and finished 3rd at Skate Canada so the Bronze is now he more wide open i think.

D/R have always been inconsistent
MTM have a chance to beat them by nationals

pangtongfan · Oct 26, 2013

Buttercup said:
they are not superior, let alone vastly superior, to the rest of the top pairs.

"The rest of the top pairs". Funny line. There are only 2 top pairs now, that is all. So whom you are referring to with your plural statement I havent the faintest clue. The pairs field is so weak currently Duhamel & Radford are on paper the #3 pair (or atleast were after Worlds). I certainly hope you arent implying teams like Dumahel & Radford and Barazova & Larionov are of the same caliber as Volosozhar & Trankov, but if you are April Fools is long over. I have a favorite pair, and they arent V&T, but I wouldnt dare say my favorite pair is currently on the same level as V&T either. The only team you could remotedly argue V&T arent superior or vastly superior to are S&S and not even them while V&T continue to skate perfectly and S&S continue to struggle relatively speaking.

lcd · Oct 27, 2013

Pairs as a discipline strikes me to be so much more unpredictable than it has been in the past. If the question is GOLD, that seems more specific and tougher to gauge, but clearly they seem the underdogs.

Skater Boy · Oct 27, 2013

Ssquared has the technical program (harder) but they have to execute it. Actually the throw jumps are hugely different - V and T much easier. If Squared are clean can you imagine their scores - like maybe 10 pts higher than v and t? yes bronze is going to be a dog fight even without Kavaguti and Smirnov - Italy and the Sui and Han have restablished themselves again as contenders after last year's problems. Then you have two Canadians, the Russian no. 2 team, pang and tong and those are just the top threats for bronze. like 6 teams for one medal

SimplyLex · Oct 27, 2013

I simply cannot wait for CoC so that we can finally see S/S's programs, the big mystery of the season. And if they skate clean, we will also have the first glimpse at their scores versus those of V/T.

Olympia · Oct 27, 2013

Skater Boy said:
Ssquared has the technical program (harder) but they have to execute it. Actually the throw jumps are hugely different - V and T much easier. If Squared are clean can you imagine their scores - like maybe 10 pts higher than v and t? yes bronze is going to be a dog fight even without Kavaguti and Smirnov - Italy and the Sui and Han have restablished themselves again as contenders after last year's problems. Then you have two Canadians, the Russian no. 2 team, pang and tong and those are just the top threats for bronze. like 6 teams for one medal

Yipes, this is going to be a nail-biter! I foresee getting no sleep during the Olympics. I'll have to rest my mind by watching the bobsled and the luge.

Scrufflet · Oct 28, 2013

Olympia said:
Yipes, this is going to be a nail-biter! I foresee getting no sleep during the Olympics. I'll have to rest my mind by watching the bobsled and the luge.

Yup! I'm planning on getting in 2 weeks worth of supplies (chocolate and champagne for some events, beer and chips for others) and not going out!

Ilvskating · Oct 28, 2013

If both skate clean, S/S sh3ould have a chance to win. I watched them at 2013 World, and although I hated V/M's SP, V/M did have a better presence on the ice. Their matching lines are just so appealing to the eyes. But S/S has higher difficulty planned, two throw 3A, that would be massive if done well. Personally the only programs I love from S/S is the Out of Africa, but a lot of their programs are memorable, like the Pink, the Clown, and Pina. V/M on the other hand looks the same in almost every program they skated, they don't have personality even they try really hard. They have really good elements, especially the twist. I don't like their throws as V tends to do double bending before the take off, that's like telegraphing a jump. But watching live in the arena, V/M have bigger visual impact.

bramweld · Oct 28, 2013

Who would have though that D/R would have lost this weekend. Anything can happen the ice is slippery. V/T have great elements that they do well but nothing really exciting beyond that IMHO, so if S/S work like crazy and if its meant to be their night, sure they can win:agree:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 28, 2013

bramweld said:
Who would have though that D/R would have lost this weekend. Anything can happen the ice is slippery.

Ironically, it wasn't the ice that cost them the victory, so much as the lift having to be aborted.

I think a lot of people keep forgetting that D/R's SBS jumps are exceedingly difficult and their consistency with them isn't as good as some couples with their 3S or 3T, however, the higher BV allows for minor errors on it. Unfortunately they missed it in both the SP/LP.

B/H certainly deserved the victory.

bramweld · Oct 28, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
D/R have always been inconsistent
MTM have a chance to beat them by nationals

Yup, besides D/R are too focussed on the elements there isn't much relating going on. MTM have that in spades. It just makes everything look better!

bramweld · Oct 28, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Ironically, it wasn't the ice that cost them the victory, so much as the lift having to be aborted.

Anything can happen.

Skater Boy · Oct 28, 2013

ITa but was not surprised by DR loss (it wasn't huge) because the Italians weren't they like fourth a few years ago at worlds and S and H looked to be the new up and coming champs. I have to say SS also is pretty much the same Their transitions or entrances are the same for years - different music but the same. Neither team inmho are memorable. SSquared has had more interesting programs BUT will always be not in the top echelon to me because they haen't skated cleanly enough.

Buttercup · Oct 28, 2013

SimplyLex said:
I simply cannot wait for CoC so that we can finally see S/S's programs, the big mystery of the season. And if they skate clean, we will also have the first glimpse at their scores versus those of V/T.

My understanding is that Aliona had a hard fall in practice a few days ago; they may not be in top shape at CoC, so factor that into your evaluation...

Ilvskating said:
If both skate clean, S/S sh3ould have a chance to win. I watched them at 2013 World, and although I hated V/M's SP, V/M did have a better presence on the ice. Their matching lines are just so appealing to the eyes. But S/S has higher difficulty planned, two throw 3A, that would be massive if done well. Personally the only programs I love from S/S is the Out of Africa, but a lot of their programs are memorable, like the Pink, the Clown, and Pina. V/M on the other hand looks the same in almost every program they skated, they don't have personality even they try really hard. They have really good elements, especially the twist. I don't like their throws as V tends to do double bending before the take off, that's like telegraphing a jump. But watching live in the arena, V/M have bigger visual impact.

V/M are ice dancers

I think you meant V/T.

Skater Boy said:
SSquared has had more interesting programs BUT will always be not in the top echelon to me because they haen't skated cleanly enough.

Why do you call them S-Squared? I've never seen anyone else use that and it makes no sense, mathematically (they would be 2S) or otherwise.

I'm not sure what your criteria for clean performances as a basis for greatness is, either, because I can't think of that many pairs who were/have been able to skate their programs without mistakes on a consistent basis.

FYI, Berton/Hotarek (that would be "the Italians") have never finished higher than tenth at Worlds, though they have medalled at Euros.

What are Aliona Savchenko & Robin Szolkowy's chances of winning the Olympic title?

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Fozzie Bear

Li'Kitsu

SimplyLex

EVAMARIA

Jammers

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

lcd

Match Penalty

Skater Boy

SimplyLex

Olympia

Scrufflet

Ilvskating

bramweld

CanadianSkaterGuy

bramweld

bramweld

Skater Boy

Buttercup

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