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Thread: What would results at all Worlds and Olympics since 2000 have been had all skate cleanly

  1. #1
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    What would results at all Worlds and Olympics since 2000 have been had all skate cleanly

    Had everyone skated cleanly at each Worlds and Olympics since 2000 what would the final results have been. I think:

    2000 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Shen & Zhao
    Silver- Petrova & Tikhonov
    Bronze- Sale & Pelletier

    Mens

    Gold- Yagudin
    Silver- Plushenko
    Bronze- Weiss

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Butyrskaya (mostly due to short program win)
    Bronze- Kwan (maybe 2nd in long, but down to 3rd due to combined Q-short program results)


    2001 Worlds

    Pairs
    Gold- Sale & Pelletier
    Silver- Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze
    Bronze- Shen & Zhao

    Men

    Gold- Plushenko
    Silver- Yagudin
    Bronze- Eldredge

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Butyrskaya


    2002 Olympics

    Pairs

    Gold- Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze
    Silver- Sale & Pelletier
    Bronze- Shen & Zhao

    Men

    Gold- Yagudin
    Silver- Plushenko
    Bronze- Honda

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Hughes


    2002 Worlds

    Pairs
    Some podium

    Mens

    Gold- Yagudin
    Silver- Abt
    Bronze- Honda

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Suguri


    2003 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Shen & Zhao
    Silver- Totmianina & Marinin
    Bronze- Petrova & Tikhonov

    Men

    Gold- Plushenko
    Silver- Weiss
    Bronze- Honda

    Ladies

    Gold- Cohen (if she did triple lutz-triple toe)
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Sokolova (only due to triple lutz-triple toes)


    2004 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Shen & Zhao
    Silver- Totmianina & Marinin
    Bronze- Pang & Tong

    Men

    Gold- Plushenko
    Silver- Sandhu
    Bronze- Joubert

    Ladies

    Gold- Cohen
    Silver- Arakawa
    Bronze- Kwan


    2005 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Totmianina & Marinin
    Silver- Petrova & Tikhonov
    Bronze- Pang & Tong

    don't count Shen & Zhao who WD partway through

    Men

    Gold- Lambiel
    Silver- Joubert
    Bronze- Buttle

    don't count Plushenko who WD partway through

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Cohen
    Bronze- Arakawa


    2006 Olympics

    Pairs

    Gold- Totmianina & Marinin
    Silver- Zhangs
    Bronze- Shen & Zhao

    Mens

    Gold- Plushenko
    Silver- Lambiel
    Bronze- Buttle

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Arakawa
    Bronze- Cohen


    2006 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Pang & Tong
    Silver- Zhangs
    Bronze- Petrova & Tikhonov

    Mens

    Gold- Lambiel
    Silver- Buttle
    Bronze- Joubert

    Ladies

    Gold- Cohen
    Silver- Meissner
    Bronze- Suguri


    2007 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Shen & Zhao
    Silver- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Bronze- Pang & Tong

    Mens

    Gold- Lambiel
    Silver- Takahashi
    Bronze- Joubert

    Ladies

    Gold- Asada
    Silver- Kim (first in SP but not enough difficulty in LP to hold off clean Asada)
    Bronze- Ando


    2008 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Silver- Pang & Tong
    Bronze- Zhangs

    Men

    Gold- Takahashi
    Silver- Lambiel
    Bronze- Buttle

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Kostner
    Bronze- Asada


    2009 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Silver- Kavaguti & Smirnov
    Bronze- Shen & Zhao

    Men

    Gold- Joubert
    Silver- Chan
    Bronze- Verner

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Asada
    Bronze- Rochette


    2010 Olympics

    Pairs

    Gold- Shen & Zhao
    Silver- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Bronze- Kavaguti & Smirnov

    Mens

    Gold- Lambiel
    Silver- Takahashi
    Bronze- Abbott

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Rochette
    Bronze- Asada


    2010 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Pang & Tong
    Silver- Kavaguti & Smirnov
    Bronze- Savchenko & Szolkowy

    Men

    Gold- Takahashi
    Silver- Chan
    Bronze- Joubert

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Nagasu
    Bronze- Asada


    2011 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Pang & Tong
    Silver- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Bronze- Volosozhar & Trankov

    Mens

    Gold- Chan
    Silver- Kozuka
    Bronze- Brezina

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Ando
    Bronze- Asada or Kostner


    2012 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Silver- Volosozhar & Trankov
    Bronze- Pang & Tong

    Mens

    Gold- Chan
    Silver- Hanyu
    Bronze- Takahashi

    Ladies

    Gold- Kostner
    Silver- Asada
    Bronze-- Suzuki


    2013 Worlds

    Pairs

    Gold- Voloszhar & Trankov
    Silver- Savchenko & Szolkowy
    Bronze- Barazova & Larionov

    Mens

    Gold- Takahashi
    Silver- Chan
    Bronze- Fernandez or Hanyu

    Ladies

    Gold- Kim
    Silver- Kostner (1st in SP, but 2nd overall)
    Bronze- Asada

  2. #2
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    Have both S&Z and S&S ever skated cleanly in one competition? I find it difficult to think that S&S are better than S&Z especially when S&Z are clean.

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    2002 Olympics

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Hughes

    I don't think this would have happened; I believe Kwan would have won, Slutskaya silver and Cohen 3rd (with a clean 3Z-3T). Slutskaya had no chance of winning the event against a clean Kwan in the US. She out skated Kwan in the SP and lost decisively, even losing a few ordinals to Sasha. (Kwan had low marks for technical merit and still beat a clean Irina)

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    2002 Olympics

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Hughes

    I don't think this would have happened; I believe Kwan would have won, Slutskaya silver and Cohen 3rd (with a clean 3Z-3T). Slutskaya had no chance of winning the event against a clean Kwan in the US. She out skated Kwan in the SP and lost decisively, even losing a few ordinals to Sasha. (Kwan had low marks for technical merit and still beat a clean Irina)
    Slutskaya lost the SP only on a 5-4 split. Hardly "decisively". While the SP results were controversial to some, Irina's short was also far worse than her short programs from the 2011 Grand Prix final and 2012 Worlds, both which would have won the SP in SLC very easily.

    As for what the judges would have done between a clean Slutskaya and clean Kwan, it would have depended which jump content both did. However Michelle skating before Irina under 6.0, the judges would have had no choice but to leave room for Irina to potentially win, no matter how well Kwan skated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    2002 Olympics

    Ladies

    Gold- Slutskaya
    Silver- Kwan
    Bronze- Hughes

    I don't think this would have happened; I believe Kwan would have won, Slutskaya silver and Cohen 3rd (with a clean 3Z-3T). Slutskaya had no chance of winning the event against a clean Kwan in the US. She out skated Kwan in the SP and lost decisively, even losing a few ordinals to Sasha. (Kwan had low marks for technical merit and still beat a clean Irina)
    What's the definition of "clean" here? No mistakes, full difficulty? Or just no mistakes and some watering down allowed? Irina with 3Lutz/Sal-3Loop would beat Kwan easily. Kwan's short didn't deserve 1st place anyway. I found her performance unimpressive and on tech content Irina beat her in every way: better height on jumps, a 3Flip that wasn't underrotated, a 3Lutz-2Lo that didn't have a severe Flutz (not to mention Loop>Toe), faster spins with more positions, and a great footwork sequence skated all on one foot(!).

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    Irina had 2 mistakes in her short program. She broke the steps between the steps and the triple flip, and she on one rotation in her combination spin she travelled about 3 feet before recentering it. Kwan`s triple flip was slightly UR (only a quarter rotation or less) but that was almost meaningless under 6.0. Irina also skated very slowly and without her usual command (similar to her LP in that regard, except her LP had even more glaring mistakes and watered down content). She still maybe should have won the short program, but there was a case for her being 2nd.

    I agree if Irina skated cleanly with a triple something-triple loop combo no way Kwan was beating her, even if she did a triple toe-triple toe. Just look at the very high LP marks which very nearly won over a 2 triple-triples Hughes even with her lame performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Slutskaya lost the SP only on a 5-4 split. Hardly "decisively". While the SP results were controversial to some, Irina's short was also far worse than her short programs from the 2011 Grand Prix final and 2012 Worlds, both which would have won the SP in SLC very easily.
    What was far worse about her SP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    What was far worse about her SP?
    Everything. The elements were weaker, she was much slower, and her last combination spin was terrible like I said. Given that you are the same one who keeps insisting Kim`s short program from the 2013 Worlds is on par with her best though, I can already tell I am wasting my breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Everything. The elements were weaker, she was much slower, and her last combination spin was terrible like I said. Given that you are the same one who keeps insisting Kim`s short program from the 2013 Worlds is on par with her best though, I can already tell I am wasting my breath.
    Is the SLC SP the one where one of her hands slipped off during the Biellmann spin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Is the SLC SP the one where one of her hands slipped off during the Biellmann spin?
    That is correct. During her 2nd Biellmann on the other leg her hand slips off and she ends up travelling (she already had been the whole spin) several feet across right when it slips:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePYXpf4mKwE

    Here is her Worlds short program which was her best performance of the program:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uIvHWQ7vyY

    Her Goodwill Games, Europeans, and Russian National short programs were also all excellent.

  11. #11
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Slutskaya's SP at the Olympics was barely worse than any other time she skated it that season. She ALWAYS had a break in the footwork before her 3Flip. The mistake on the combination spin was minor; the hand "slip" actually showed a bit of personality with the movement she made with it.

    That program was simply bad. All 3 jumping passes were thrown in at the start of the program and the music was such a "wannbe lyrical" attempt that didn't have any kind of special choreography or interpretation to it. I would have given her a 5.6 for the second mark.

    Also, a perfect Kwan was NOT going to lose. The second mark is the tiebreaker. Irina doing a harder 3-3 wasn't going to make up the difference. She would have needed two 3-3 combos AND two 3Lutzes, which is something she was never able to do. The results would have been exactly as they were in the SP - 1. Kwan, 2. Slutskaya, 3. Cohen, 4. Hughes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Everything. The elements were weaker, she was much slower, and her last combination spin was terrible like I said. Given that you are the same one who keeps insisting Kim`s short program from the 2013 Worlds is on par with her best though, I can already tell I am wasting my breath.
    When do I keep insisting that? It isn't polite to say that I keep insisting something when I may have said it once. Stop being so dramatic.

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    Michelle Kwan would have won everything all the time. Always. And forever. Including Vancouver Olympics. You can't refute it. It's just science. End of discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    When do I keep insisting that? It isn't polite to say that I keep insisting something when I may have said it once. Stop being so dramatic.
    I don't think it's impolite as much as it's just being melodramatic. I think we could all afford to lighten up; melodrama is part of the life of a skating fan!

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    If I remember correctly, 2008- barring a fall on her 3A, Asada also had two triple-triples? If we are talking clean as in, 'CLEAN' (everything credited and rotated with no judicial bias and reputation scoring)- surely, a 3A and two triple-triples should fare way higher than a bronze. Definitely even against two Lutzes, even if Kim had garnered enough +GOEs- we're talking clean, so surely everyone else including Asada would have gotten +GOE's on her technical elements?

    Also, 2013. Asada had an 8 triple layout vs. Kim's 6 and Kostner's 7. I'd maybe give it to Caro in terms of Components just because its always a given for the judges' darling, but 8 triples executed 'cleanly' and with +GOEs should earn Asada sky high technical marks.

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