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Thread: Short Dance: 2013 Skate Canada International

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by riceplate View Post
    Two competitions into the Grand Prix and its frustrating to watch the Finnstep section stick out like a thorn. Either the lower tier teams look sluggish with the quick movements, or maybe these coaches/choreographers don't seem to integrate the compulsory pattern very well into the program. They need to find better music cuts to suit that portion.

    Uploaded the top two SDs (no commentary) --

    Weaver/Poje: http://youtu.be/C_6U5NZOlLU
    Virtue Moir: http://youtu.be/tKRuDvj-Lpg


    I enjoyed the SDs from the top CDN teams! I'm with Tracy Wilson - that midline step from Tessa and Scott was exquisite.

    While well-performed at Skate America, Meryl and Charlie's My Fair Lady feels plain-Jane compared to W/P and V/M's programs. I wish D/W would switch up the music some.
    ITA but palin jain is okay. But if we are to accept D and W winning and getting amazing scores and saying masterpieces where thier plain jane or safe rutines (and yes, remember the marks are based on not whether you like the music or if they are stretching themselves as artists but the technicall elements and were they will done and performed regardless of your like or dislike. I wish we would judge Kostner (there are some who think she is constantly overmarked or Mao or Chan in particular. I think the fans or the watchers of skating may be the hypicrites. With all the yelling and screaming we may be estroying the sport and in many cases our contradicting ourselves. COP seaprates things out so yes, you can win with falls because everything elese is so good or another way those who land big tricks and spins may not be so hot pc wise. Watch those transitions Plushy versus Dai or Chan? You don't see the reward for such difficulty really sometiems.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post

    Also, how does it influence the score when a team does a 3-section twizzle versus a 2-section twizzle? Tessa and Scott always go for the 3-section, while Meryl and Charlie do the 2-section and still get level 4 for it, so I'd think it doesn't matter?
    I am, by no means, a code expert but I suspect that the way D/W enter their twizzles (with a little "hop") makes their 2-section twizzle equal to a 3-section twizzle.

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    What defines levels in twizzles anyway? Change of position? change of legs? change of the rotation?

    Also, how does it influence the score when a team does a 3-section twizzle versus a 2-section twizzle? Tessa and Scott always go for the 3-section, while Meryl and Charlie do the 2-section and still get level 4 for it, so I'd think it doesn't matter?
    I think Meryl and Charlie's difficult twizzle entry (they jump into it) is why they get the level 4 with just two twizzles. Levels are partly determined by number of rotations in each twizzle- you need one full turn in each twizzle for level 1, 2 full turns in level 2, 3 full turns in level 3, and 4 full turns in level 4. Then there are additional features that can help you earn levels, grouped in 3 different groups. You need a certain number of these to earn various levels. They're things like preforming a third twizzle of at least 3 rotations (part of how V/M earn their levels), free leg crossed behind the knee (which many pairs do), hands clasped behind back, arm movement, and so on... there are many many options.

    Maybe Doris can explain more clearly!

  4. #199
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    What defines levels in twizzles anyway? Change of position? change of legs? change of the rotation?

    Also, how does it influence the score when a team does a 3-section twizzle versus a 2-section twizzle? Tessa and Scott always go for the 3-section, while Meryl and Charlie do the 2-section and still get level 4 for it, so I'd think it doesn't matter?
    Ok. I'll take a swag at twizzle scores in general after sc is over.

  5. #200
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    (didn't read the whole discussion) Can anyone try to understand the penalty for "illegal movement" that G/F received? It's the third time they perform this program this season and they never received this kind of deduction before...

  6. #201
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The problem was with their lift. You can tell that because an illegal move as part of an element means the element gets either Level 1 or no score at all. Their lift was the only element they had that was Level 1 in the SD.

    So let's look at their lifts this year:

    Lift at SC "pop my cork"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...wpoJz9o#t=154s
    Lift at Nebelhorn
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Rjz3GAg#t=158s

    Here's the rule:
    If there is an illegal movement during the execution of any element, the deduction for an illegal movement will apply and the
    element will receive Level 1 if the requirements for at least Level 1 are fulfilled. Otherwise the element will be called No Level.

    Rule 604, Paragraph 16
    The following movementsand/or poses during the lift are illegal:
     Lifting hand(s) of the lifting partner higher than his head*;
     Lying or sitting on the partner’s head;
     Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;
     Lifting partner swinging the lifted partner around by holding the skate(s)/boot(s) or leg(s) only
    with fully extended arm(s) or by holding the hand(s) with full arm extension by both partners;
     Lifted partner in upside down split pose (with sustained angle between thighs more than 45
    degrees)**;

    * It is not considered as an Illegal Lift Movement/Pose if:
    · the point of contact of the lifting hand/arm of the lifting partner with any part of the body of
    the lifted partner is not sustained higher than the lifting partner’s head;
    · the lifting hand/arm which is used for support or balancing only or which touches any part of
    the body of the lifted partner is not sustained by the lifting partner higher than his head for
    more than 2 seconds.
    ** A brief movement through an upside down split pose (with any angle between between thighs) will be
    permitted if it is not established (sustained) or if it is used only to change pose
    .
    I've highlighted the sections that apply. Nebelhorn tech panel thought the movement was not established or sustained or was used only to change pose. Or that she was not sitting on his shoulders for a brief time. SC panel disagreed.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-27-2013 at 04:13 PM.

  7. #202
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    Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;
    Last year Virtue/Moir did a lift where Tessa sitting on the Scott's shoulders.

    This lift could be illegal too.

    http://youtu.be/qp70e8oMkVE?t=50s

  8. #203
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    That lift also looks amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Last year Virtue/Moir did a lift where Tessa sitting on the Scott's shoulders.

    This lift could be illegal too.

    http://youtu.be/qp70e8oMkVE?t=50s

  9. #204
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I never did really figure out why it was OK to sit on someone's shoulders facing them, versus sitting on someone's shoulders facing the other way. But all the tech panels agreed that Tessa & Scott's lift was OK. So that is not sitting on the shoulders.

  10. #205
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Oh, thank you Doris!! So this means that they lost at least 4.50 points because of that lift With those 4.5 points they could have been 5th... Well, let's hope that they'll change that position!!

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Oh, thank you Doris!! So this means that they lost at least 4.50 points because of that lift With those 4.5 points they could have been 5th... Well, let's hope that they'll change that position!!
    Shame about that as I'll bet they had some specialists "look" at their lifts, but nothing was said before the event. To get nailed during a competition like a Grand Prix really sucks.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I never did really figure out why it was OK to sit on someone's shoulders facing them, versus sitting on someone's shoulders facing the other way. But all the tech panels agreed that Tessa & Scott's lift was OK. So that is not sitting on the shoulders.
    I don't think having your legs hooked over someone's shoulders would technically be considered sitting. However when facing the other way, it could be considered sitting on the partner's back (not shoulders). According to the rules: "Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;", that would be illegal. For V/M's lift to be considered illegal, the rule would need to say "Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back, or chest;". Why they allow chest but not back would likely have been an arbitrary past decision. Perhaps because facing the other way and sitting on someones back is just too ordinary. Even little kids ride on their parents shoulders/back that way.

  13. #208
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    To me, the shoulders are the features either side of your neck. Whichever way someone is facing, if both their legs and/or their butt or thighs are pressed down supporting them on either or both shoulders, they're sitting on someone's shoulders.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder
    The human shoulder is made up of three bones: the clavicle (collarbone), the scapula (shoulder blade), and the humerus (upper arm bone) as well as associated muscles, ligaments and tendons
    and sitting is
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting

    Sitting is a rest position supported by the buttocks or thighs where the torso is more or less upright.
    Clearly the ISU does not agree with me (nor with the above definitions), and I am OK with that, but I wish they would publish a question/answer about why it is OK, exactly, in their view-teams planning new lifts could use the clarification.

    This lift of G&F looks more questionable for "sitting" than for "upside down split" because the split is clearly transitional, and should be OK.

    Several people had different theories of why V&M's lift was OK. If team G&F bought into the wrong reason, the ISU caused their confusion, and that makes me angry. There should have been a clarification of the rule.

    I recall one person who claimed to be a dance coach claiming that sitting on shoulders meant the lifted partner sitting on a single shoulder. If that's how the rule should be interpreted, either sitting forward or backwards astride the neck would be OK.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-28-2013 at 03:04 PM.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetskates1 View Post
    That lift also looks amazing!
    Yes I love that lift too. I hope its not illegal.

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