Pairs Long Program- Skate Canada 2013

Fruit Loops · Oct 26, 2013

It's unfortunate the audience booed after D/R's marks but they do boo low marks for other nationalities too. Yesterday, they booed the marks for one of the american teams. I don't like booing in general but it's not that big a deal. It seems just another way to bash anything Canadian. Sometimes it seems people won't be happy unless all the Canadians are in last place. And they'd still get the "over-scored" remarks.

Anyways, still not a huge fan of D/R. They just seem too calculating. I know it's all about the points but it seems too obvious that it's about the points with them. I much prefer M-T/M. Oh well.

Loved the Italians. I had never heard of them before. Will have to keep my eye on them from now on.

Mao88 · Oct 27, 2013

PAIRS FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Stefania BERTON / Ondrej HOTAREK (ITA) - 193.92 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN (CHN) - 193.77 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
3. Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD (CAN) - 190.62 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
4. Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS (CAN) - 159.82 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
5. Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER (USA) - 158.83 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
6. Lindsay DAVIS / Rockne BRUBAKER (USA) - 153.71 Free Skate
7. Mari VARTMANN / Aaron VAN CLEAVE (GER) - 149.59 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
8. Margaret PURDY / Michael MARINARO (CAN) - 131.39 Free Skate

Skater Boy · Oct 27, 2013

Well the results here are going to give evidence of what I thought all along. Olympic bronze medal in pair is a crap shoot. Forget the Americans who can't even figure out who is the top american team They would have to hope for a lot of fiascos. So Sui and Han and the Italians are reemerging after a year hiatus from being a threat. They both will need to show consistency. Two Canadian teams and a russian team although the other Ruissian threat Kavaguti and Smirnov really appear to be out of the picture but B and L still could sneak a bronze. Add Pang and Ton to the picture and let the games begin. Pang and tong might find themselves sorry they stuck around because if they are not healthy it is possible they may not make the top 5. the odds are probably one or two of these mentioned teams will bomb at Olympics SS, VT, BH, BL, PT, DR, the second canadian team, SH, then the third Russian team, third Canadian team, second German team, two Americans will fight it out top ten- maybe is it the Ukrainian team too.

blue_idealist · Oct 27, 2013

Skater Boy said:
Well the results here are going to give evidence of what I thought all along. Olympic bronze medal in pair is a crap shoot. Forget the Americans who can't even figure out who is the top american team They would have to hope for a lot of fiascos. So Sui and Han and the Italians are reemerging after a year hiatus from being a threat. They both will need to show consistency. Two Canadian teams and a russian team although the other Ruissian threat Kavaguti and Smirnov really appear to be out of the picture but B and L still could sneak a bronze. Add Pang and Ton to the picture and let the games begin. Pang and tong might find themselves sorry they stuck around because if they are not healthy it is possible they may not make the top 5. the odds are probably one or two of these mentioned teams will bomb at Olympics SS, VT, BH, BL, PT, DR, the second canadian team, SH, then the third Russian team, third Canadian team, second German team, two Americans will fight it out top ten- maybe is it the Ukrainian team too.

Yeah, if you asked me who was going to win the bronze medal in Sochi, I'd have no idea what to tell you lol. And there are some teams who on a good day could win it but might even fall out of the top ten on a bad day.

Ice Diva · Oct 27, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
I didn't really like any of these Long Programs. I would score them the same as my rankings for the SP: 1. Italians, 2. Canadians, 3. Chinese

I felt the Canadians were screwed over with the < call on the Lutz and the Chinese were overscored on their jump combination - they get SO far apart and out of sync.

In terms of PCS the Canadians had the best skating skills, Chinese had the best choreography (although the interpretation was too simplistic), Italians had the best performance.

Exactly. I like the Canadians' program & choreography but too many errors on the day. IA with your scoring & ranking. The Chinese look like juniors to me. They don't have good skating skills (lots of snow flying up from their blades at times) and their tricks should remain in the cirque du soleil tent.

Ice Diva · Oct 27, 2013

Good point. It be splitting hairs, however, to point out that the booing at Nice wasn't just towards the judges for scores, but were also directed at a skater and continued even when that skater was being interviewed. The Canadian audiences often boo scores but not the athletes themselves who have no control over the scores. That's why the Nice booing incensed many people.

bekalc · Oct 27, 2013

suzukifan27 said:
I feel bad for the kid you jinxed... She wasn't that great but you kept on telling the world she would be magic... Her outlook is pretty dim with sloppy skating skills, heavy body type..

I talked well about Kim when she was a Junior, and she's an OGM. :sarcasm: The reality is its hard to know whose going to be a big star or not, I thought Mirai would be but she's not. I thought I/K would be right now, no.

In the end, what it comes down to a lot is work ethic, and you can't really sense work ethic, on a tv or internet screen.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 28, 2013

jaylee said:
D/R had a voided element. Whenever a skater has a voided element, it's a huge hit to their score--as it was for D/R--and the crowd is often confused because the score is lower than expected.

Brian Joubert Zayaked himself at 2013 Worlds and thus an entire element--that seemingly was executed fine--was given 0 points, and the score was significantly lower than expected. And the crowd--in Canada--booed that.

The booing may have not solely because D/R didn't win, but because of the confusion over the score and voided element. There's no way for the crowd to know that an element was invalidated.

Exactly. I didn't see the Canadian broadcast but I hope that was pointed out.

To a crowd, the botched lift isn't seen as 7 or 8 points lost. D/R screwed up on the lift and it rightfully cost them gold.

Often the crowd fails to acknowledge the severity of certain errors (like a botched lift or doubled jump), as well as forget about how well or how poorly the rest of the field has done, and forget about any strong SP performances. Chan's fall on his 2A in his 2012 Worlds win (his only real error, other than turning his 3S to a 2S) was seen as a huge error because it was a visible one.... given the low BV of the element (i.e. the -3's didn't lose him too many points) and the fact that he landed 2 quads (whereas Takahashi did one and without) and had a decent SP lead over Takahashi because of the latter's downgrade, the win made sense.

chuckm · Oct 28, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
I didn't really like any of these Long Programs. I would score them the same as my rankings for the SP: 1. Italians, 2. Canadians, 3. Chinese

I felt the Canadians were screwed over with the < call on the Lutz and the Chinese were overscored on their jump combination - they get SO far apart and out of sync.

In terms of PCS the Canadians had the best skating skills, Chinese had the best choreography (although the interpretation was too simplistic), Italians had the best performance.

The three teams were so close in score after the SP that any little error could make the difference in placement. The Italians made NO errors in the FS and were the deserved winners. The Chinese may have been far apart and out of sync on their jump combination (a GOE factor) but they did complete the rotation on their jumps.

OTOH, Radford double-footed the landing on his lutz, so it WAS UR. I was watching the FS on UniversalSports and Peter Carruthers said they wouldn't get credit for the 3z because Eric hadn't landed on one foot. But that was a small error compared with the aborted lift.

Sorry, but the order of finish was correct. If it's any consolation, D/R should have no problem winning gold in their next event, TEB, where their only real competition is Pang/Tong.

Tonichelle · Oct 28, 2013

I don't get the comment made about the Chinese's tricks being only suited for Cirque. I see nothing different in what they're doing than some of the other teams.

The Italians and Chinese teams both seem to skate very far a part and spend a lot of time keeping their speed up. The Canadians seem to maintain speed, but it was all the little mistakes adding up. I don't think the placements are incorrect.

I do like Sui and Han the most out of this competition, though. They just need to really work on polishing up their jumps/elements. But that's true of pretty much the entire Chinese Pairs program... seems to take the teams forEVER to be in sync.

Ilvskating · Oct 28, 2013

While it depends if both team skate clean. If P/T finish all their elements well, especially the jumps, then I can't see D/R beat them. D/R are good but still not a great team yet.

chuckm said:
The three teams were so close in score after the SP that any little error could make the difference in placement. The Italians made NO errors in the FS and were the deserved winners. The Chinese may have been far apart and out of sync on their jump combination (a GOE factor) but they did complete the rotation on their jumps.

OTOH, Radford double-footed the landing on his lutz, so it WAS UR. I was watching the FS on UniversalSports and Peter Carruthers said they wouldn't get credit for the 3z because Eric hadn't landed on one foot. But that was a small error compared with the aborted lift.

Sorry, but the order of finish was correct. If it's any consolation, D/R should have no problem winning gold in their next event, TEB, where their only real competition is Pang/Tong.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 28, 2013

Tonichelle said:
I don't get the comment made about the Chinese's tricks being only suited for Cirque. I see nothing different in what they're doing than some of the other teams.

What about their 4Tw3?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 28, 2013

chuckm said:
The three teams were so close in score after the SP that any little error could make the difference in placement. The Italians made NO errors in the FS and were the deserved winners.

Stefania had an error on her 3S, but that was the only error. The Italians still deserved to win, IMO. What a close finish though!

Skater Boy · Oct 28, 2013

blue_idealist said:
Yeah, if you asked me who was going to win the bronze medal in Sochi, I'd have no idea what to tell you lol. And there are some teams who on a good day could win it but might even fall out of the top ten on a bad day.

totally agree! I mean an american team could shock us but I doubt it as they would have to get past at least six teams (seven if you consider the third Russian) before they got a crack at then medal) Side note - this is bad I can't keep up with all the break ups, injuries new pairs teams in the States. They sound rather ubiquitous and interchangeable. Like a bad soap opera.

Tonichelle · Oct 28, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
What about their 4Tw3?

I didn't say they aren't doing them BETTER

I'm just not seeing any out there moves that are more Cirque than pairs skating.

dorispulaski · Oct 28, 2013

Tonichelle said:
I don't get the comment made about the Chinese's tricks being only suited for Cirque. I see nothing different in what they're doing than some of the other teams.

The Italians and Chinese teams both seem to skate very far a part and spend a lot of time keeping their speed up. The Canadians seem to maintain speed, but it was all the little mistakes adding up. I don't think the placements are incorrect.

I do like Sui and Han the most out of this competition, though. They just need to really work on polishing up their jumps/elements. But that's true of pretty much the entire Chinese Pairs program... seems to take the teams forEVER to be in sync.

Tonichelle said:
I didn't say they aren't doing them BETTER I'm just not seeing any out there moves that are more Cirque than pairs skating.

And Sui & Han have a good excuse in their La Strada SP-they suposed to be street performers, so if they remind you of Cirque, they have expressed the music beautifully!

In many cases, Cirque performers are a lot more graceful & good at working to their music than some pairs teams these days, IMO.

Blades of Passion · Oct 28, 2013

chuckm said:
OTOH, Radford double-footed the landing on his lutz, so it WAS UR. I was watching the FS on UniversalSports and Peter Carruthers said they wouldn't get credit for the 3z because Eric hadn't landed on one foot. But that was a small error compared with the aborted lift.

Double footing and UR are separate things. He did NOT underrotate that jump more than 1/4 rotation. It wasn't really double-footed either, the toepick of his free-foot just brushed the ice as he landed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRMLeG1HzE&t=7m25s (btw, I have no idea why this video is title as 2012 Trophee Bompard when it is 2013 Skate Canada, LOL?)

Look at where his blade is facing on the take-off ---> towards the nescafe banner at the boards. He needs to land 1/4 turn past that direction for it to be a sufficiently rotated triple. As you can see on the replay, he clearly does. The ISU does not teach callers how to measure the geometry of jumps and as such their calls are frequently wrong, because they just see a tight landing like this one and it sets signals off in their brain.

So, to me, this pairs jump should have been scored as 3Lutz with -1.5 GOE. -1 GOE for the landing issue and 0.5 -GOE for their lack of unison on the takeoff. Since judges can't actually give -1.5, then -2 is fair. 3Lutz with -2GOE still would have been worth more points than what they actually got because of the < call.

The Chinese pair should have received -2 GOE for their combination jump, IMO. Her jumps are tiny and barely rotated, they aren't very well synced, and they are too far apart from each other. Moves like this are what have been killing the appeal of Pairs skating with CoP.

-----

The Cirque moves are totally fine. That's a strange criticism.

FSGMT · Oct 28, 2013

Can anyone explain D/R's PCoSp level 1?

sky_fly20 · Oct 28, 2013

P/T may be ancient but so what ? D/R are inconsistent and she especially has one of the ugliest pairs form
horrendous lines, zero artistry and not a single good look about her skating skills, this pair is nastier than crorcodile teared pairs S/P

demarinis5 · Oct 28, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
P/T may be ancient but so what ? D/R are inconsistent and she especially has one of the ugliest pairs form
horrendous lines, zero artistry and not a single good look about her skating skills, this pair is nastier than crorcodile teared pairs S/P

You forgot to add that Meagan is also a Vegan. :rolleye:

Pairs Long Program- Skate Canada 2013

Fruit Loops

Mao88

Skater Boy

blue_idealist

Ice Diva

Ice Diva

bekalc

CanadianSkaterGuy

chuckm

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Ilvskating

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

Skater Boy

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

FSGMT

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

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