Free Dance Skate Canada 2013

sweetskates1 said:

If it is, then it will be shocking! The judges have embraced Meryl and Charlie but they always show their continued affinity for V/M. I really think that W/P are good but V/M are still better. I just cannot get over how empty and relatively easy their FD looks this year specially compared to the massively difficult program that D/W have masterfully performed.

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I was thinking Void could eek out a bronze at the Olympics, but I do not know now. They won't beat C/L with those easy programs. Have not seen B/S. And I think W/P could take them out with the tech marks. Their lifts are obviously much more difficult than Void's. That music does nothing to help their cause. it's just so bland and I am left thinking it really leads to nothing. There is no story, no build up, no tension. Nothing. Just left with a void.

FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR (CAN) - 181.03
2. Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE (CAN) - 175.23 Free Dance
3. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE (USA) - 153.20 Free Dance
4. Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO (RUS) - 145.56
5. Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM (CAN) - 143.77
6. Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI (GER) - 138.16
7. Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI (ITA) - 134.28
8. Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN (RUS) - 133.12

sky_fly20 said:

looks like V/M will be a non threat for D/W

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I certainly hope Davis/White are not thinking in that manor. I'm sure Virtue/Moir will be quite competitive when it comes to the actual competition in Sochi.

The thing is that I just went back to watch D/W's last performance of their FD and I honestly feel that it is so far beyond all of their rivals - like 15 points beyond - it is glorious and epic! But the judges always give V/M so many points that I am still nervous. At the very least, the judges seem to appreciate D/W much more than they did when the travesty of 2009 worlds occurred. I don't know and it is hard to explain but I still see D/W as the underdog not because of their skills and interpretation but rather because of the politicking and history in ice dancing.

blackswanphoto said:

I was thinking Void could eek out a bronze at the Olympics, but I do not know now. They won't beat C/L with those easy programs. Have not seen B/S. And I think W/P could take them out with the tech marks. Their lifts are obviously much more difficult than Void's. That music does nothing to help their cause. it's just so bland and I am left thinking it really leads to nothing. There is no story, no build up, no tension. Nothing. Just left with a void.

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sweetskates1 said:

The thing is that I just went back to watch D/W's last performance of their FD and I honestly feel that it is so far beyond all of their rivals - like 15 points beyond - it is glorious and epic! But the judges always give V/M so many points that I am still nervous. At the very least, the judges seem to appreciate D/W much more than they did when the travesty of 2009 worlds occurred. I don't know and it is hard to explain but I still see D/W as the underdog not because of their skills and interpretation but rather because of the politicking and history in ice dancing.

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Well we saw what happened at 2012 World's, so anything is possible. The good news is I don't think I ever remember V/M beating D/W in Japan or Russia. I am sure they must have before, I just do not remember. D/W has problems with V/M when they compete in America and Europe.

The first one is beautiful and we all know that Moir will work his a$% off to execute it well when they go against D/W. The very fast rotational lift is extremely cool looking.

elif said:

Which lift is great? First one looking awkward and looking like Scott needs a moment before lifting Tessa up. Not a great position either. Second one very generic and easy, even junior teams doing that lift with much more GOE. First rotatinal lift very fast but not flow out of it. Second one too slow especially after the first one. I really loved those Carmen lifts and 2008 FD lifts. But this year's lifts horrible. How can they get +3 GOE, I don't understand.

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Exactly 2012 Worlds, to this day that pains me - how could they lose? It was BS.

blackswanphoto said:

Well we saw what happened at 2012 World's, so anything is possible. The good news is I don't think I ever remember V/M beating D/W in Japan or Russia. I am sure they must have before, I just do not remember. D/W has problems with V/M when they compete in America and Europe.

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Maybe, Tessa should be lifting Scott?

sweetskates1 said:

The first one is beautiful and we all know that Moir will work his a$% off to execute it well when they go against D/W. The very fast rotational lift is extremely cool looking.

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Very cool looking, but I think that is the one they got a deduction for (?)

Marine63 said:

Maybe, Tessa should be lifting Scott?

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I suggested this a while back. He is small enough to lift.

Marine63 said:

Maybe, Tessa should be lifting Scott?

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That would be amazing. Their Free Dance sure does need some more interesting choreography anyway.

Time for Tessa to hit the weights and Scott to slim down even more.

rosacotton said:

Oh, good! I wasn't the only one having sudden flashbacks of D/W's superior POTO.

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I love Meryl and Charlie to pieces and I did love the power, speed and drama of their POTO, but really, the best POTO ever was by Drobiazko/Vanagas. I think it was the first time POTO was used by a world level dance team, wasn't it? When I go back and watch this, it still gives me shivers, 8 years later it's still a masterpiece. The emotion of that dance is superior to honestly anything I've seen ever since.

Back to SC, this event is IMO a proof that V/M's silver is secured. They can make mistakes, they can lose in TES, but they still have the reputation of world's best (next to D/W) and that seems to be enough.

As for W/P, it's funny how everybody is saying they have the best shot at the bronze, when last week people were saying the exact same thing about C/L and next week probably about B/S or P/B. You people need to remember that W/P were skating on home ice TOO. I don't think they would've been given over 104, as compared to C/L's 98, if they hadn't skated in Canada. I honestly think the bronze contenders will keep switching places at different events and to the last moment we won't know who's likely to become world's #3. That's why it's so exciting!

honestly, Tessa has looked just as big as she is now since about the fall of 2010 - so what is the difference? Meryl has always been tiny in comparison to all others and Tessa has always looked like a "woman". As far I can remember, Tessa looked her thinnest during the Olympic cycle and even then, D/W were much more faster and lighter than she and her partner.

So what is the difference? D/W have always had speedier and more difficult entries and exits in/out of their spins. The judges continue to reward V/M.

Marine63 said:

Maybe, Tessa should be lifting Scott?

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Yes, I saw that they had a one point deduction. Now, I feel that they were overscored. Max for the program should be 106 prior to deduction. It was aimless and bland for much of the time and it made little use of the changes in music. the more I remember of it the less I like it. :disapp: I have no doubt, however, that V/M will come back much stronger every time to make sure they win over D/W.

Mathman said:

Very cool looking, but I think that is the one they got a deduction for (?)

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sweetskates1 said:

honestly, Tessa has looked just as big as she is now since about the fall of 2010 - so what is the difference?

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Maybe they didn't get a lift specialist. Remember no hands lift from 2009 and 2010. Very creative. This year they are doing this lift. :sarcasm:
http://youtu.be/l1Dju5A_H3g?t=6m9s

V/M first lift where Scott starts on two feet and goes to one foot to mirror Tessa's line is amazing. I'm not sold on the last lift yet but I'm pretty sure changes will be made to that one. No one moves like they do.

sweetskates1 said:

honestly, Tessa has looked just as big as she is now since about the fall of 2010 - so what is the difference? Meryl has always been tiny in comparison to all others and Tessa has always looked like a "woman". As far I can remember, Tessa looked her thinnest during the Olympic cycle and even then, D/W were much more faster and lighter than she and her partner.

So what is the difference? D/W have always had speedier and more difficult entries and exits in/out of their spins. The judges continue to reward V/M.

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Nah she is bigger now (Unless the ice rink has shrunk)... She has outgrown Scott. They used to have a much easier time with the lifts.. Now it's almost expected for them to struggle with them. I think the reason the judges hold them up is that they want the sport to have some excitement. It would be boring to the average viewer if the perception was that D/W was far superior (which they are at this point). I think this is why they gifted the 2012 World's to V/M. They wanted them to stick around through the Olympics. You have to remember there are loads of tickets that could be sold to Canadian's, and Canada is a big Figure Skating Country, so they have to look at it from a financial standpoint too. Without the perception that V/M could repeat as Gold medalists think of how much money they would be leaving on the table.

FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR (CAN) - 181.03 Free Dance
2. Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE (CAN) - 175.23 Free Dance
3. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE (USA) - 153.20 Free Dance
4. Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO (RUS) - 145.56 Free Dance
5. Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM (CAN) - 143.77
6. Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI (GER) - 138.16
7. Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI (ITA) - 134.28
8. Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN (RUS) - 133.12

Okay, I do very much enjoy V/M's short dance, but this free dance does not hold my attention. I also don't like the music/choreo cuts to the short faster section -- the first move from slow to fast is fine, but then there's a brief return to slow (too sudden), a quick few bars of fast again, then back to slow. That doesn't flow well to me musically or choreographically. Don't care at all for the soulful gazing into each other's eyes at beginning and end -- seems canned even if it's not. How will they be able to do that every performance between now and the end of the season with it coming off all right? It will be a challenge. Don't care at all for the cheesy head and hand bow/salute whatever that is.

Whole program seems a little simple but clean and spare can be very nice. They do create a flowy, fluffy mood. Still, at least at this performance, it did not hold my attention and I paused my video to go get a granola bar partway through.

These are just subjective impressions and I'm not trying to "bash" or "hate" on them. And the program will probably grow on me as the season goes on -- I know Carmen did last year.

some thoughts...sorry for lenght

first - Paul/Islam were very good, good overall impression, they hear the music, try to match the moves and point out the little details in it. Korzeniowki's music is stunning for me to dance but quite difficult to interpret - on that stage I think they're on a good course with their coaches. From the tech side they looked better than yesterday, but it need to get smoother and more fluid especially in the second part of the dance. They are young and promising couple for me, I'll definetly watch them.

next - Stepanova/Bukin, in general I don't like that russian style of ice dancing - overposing and overacting sometimes so if some fresh couple appears at the stage I try not to see them that way. They definetly have potental to grow and develop, both technically and artistically, now for me everything is too "raw" and not precise. Concepts might be good, but I feel that this season choreos not showing their young attack power in a full way. They have speed, some good tech elements in their store, the energy, but I see them in some other choreo, in some other style. And personally I have a strange feeling there are plenty of similar ice dancers in Russia now - tall, good-looking couples with junior successes, lots of enthusiasm, but when they step up to the senior level they're becoming the same for me most of the time. They need to work on their personal style, try to find some place to develop, not to imitate some other couples - for me a good example of that is Gabriela Papadakis and Guillaume Cizeron - young french couple who will debut at GP in France this year. They are characteristic for me now - there is some style, some ideas about themselves as a ice dancers. Stepanova/Bukin should work on tech side still, but imo the most of the effort should be put on forming them as a knowledgeable couple, no as "one of many russian couples".

Hubbell/Donohue - as I wrote early for me they are great, this FD despite my first thoughts works amazingly well for them. Technically it was better dance than at SA last week and whole performance gets better and better. There is connection, musicality, good conception for using the music for placing the elements, good execution and presentation. When my friend was watching with me that dance she said that she would never detect that there were any tech elements in it (she doesn't know anything about figure skating , for her and so for me everything was fluid and continous. And here I want to respond for ealier post in which one of users said about stopping saying about Hubbell/Donohue's chances for olympic spot, because it depriecionate Shibutanis - everyone has his/her own taste and knows what he/she likes to watch. I like more Madison and Zach's dances this season, they really developed technically and artistically since they've started dance together while in Shibutanis case I feel that they still standing in one place somehow. They really are talented, good in technique, but this years programs are not good vehicles for them imo - especially FD, even last year's Memoirs of a geisha was better, more characteristic and mature. So everyone has a right to have their favs, personal preferences and can make opinions about that. About spots - we'll see at US nationals...

Kaitlyn and Andrew's tango was just exquisite for me - tech side of it was right along with emotions and that is what I'm looking for ice dance performances - there was a story, created by the music and what is important - by their movement. Maybe it need more shapness in some places, but it will definetly come late the season. Everything was at point there - the costumes, the face expressions, contact between them, tango holds, passionate music. And I must say that Andrew is one of the best (even the best) partner in ice dance actually - he is not only putting himself in the role but more of that he portrays Kaitlyn beautifully with such a style and class, it's very very rare nowadays...and he is super hot in that dance...

and Tessa and Scott...I have some mixed feelings about it all. For me concept and music choice are good, but I was hoping for tango FD for them this year so badly...I've imagined they skating to Por una cabeza or Piazzola's Oblivion tango. I've put them also in some pieces of Ludovico Einaudi like Ancora, Il giorni or A fuoco, but their choice is different and we have to get it...Music is delightful itself, but as in Paul/Islam case it is hard music to interpret, to put some personal, individual feeling into it. From that side I think they're on a good course - choreo may be not packed with some fireworks but that music imo not required them as a obligatory elements, simplicity of movements not means automatically simple dance/choreo, really...
Choreo pays attention for music details, for tempo changings but no for wise placing tech elements for me unfortunately...I knew about 5 sec before their choreo last lift that they won't execute it or won't execute it well/fully - Tessa was exhausted and Scott after two strenght - demanding rotational lifts was probably also out of breath, so when she was upping herself for entry position on that lift I knew it already I was right - her free leg was not well streched and she wasn't stable there. While building choreo their coaches should take into consideration that they are more/less similar in height and create lifts that they could manage properly AND that lifts should be along with the music and placed wisely - they should be able to take a breath between them and prepare themselves. Here we've got 3 lifts (2 rotational and choreo) in the last minute/minute and a half of the dance - for me it will be probably impossible to make them all correctly in time in that dance,but if they want to they should do some hard cardio workout or smthg similar to built their stamina now. Comparing first part of the dance to its second part it's resonable for me that the idea was to build the emotions, feeling, tension up, but why put hard elements so near in the end - I mean that lifts and step sequence right after rotational ones? As what I saw tonight I don't see a logic in that move, they will pull their lungs out doing that lats lift...
Overall, good effort, good impession, mostly good execution, but I'm afraid of that lifts cumulated at the end of a program, if they would be able to skate the whole program clean, give so much emotion and still be able to breathe after, I would be amazed, because that dance has something uniqueness and intimacy in it and I would love to see it skated clean and passionate