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Thread: Julia Lipnitskaia :P I know-I know

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    She is very good indeed, but saying she can challenge kostner or mao is premature, because we have not seen Kostner Yet. I am sorry, but Kostner's 2013 WC performance with two mistakes should beat Julia's skate Canada win. If kostner rotates 5 triples , her jumps and technique are better and PCS, sorry no judge should put Julia close to kostner on PCS. So, my point is Julia is very good, but saying she can challenged Kostner is premature.
    Kostner skating skills then are being equated to Chan's I suggest. so as good as Javier is and Hanyu Chan should have a two jump or error lead but the posters on this site would probably not have that and say it was bias. It is interesting how much "slack" we give Kostner and she is good but certainly no better than Chan if you could judge them fairly against one another pc wise though I still don't get her Bolero - and I don't think as Dicky Button might put it , it was sublime. I don't think she understood the music either but never the less her skating skills are amazing. I hope judges aren't reading these posts and being influenced julia is young folks and she is picking something challenging; she isn't trying to be a sprite with an expensive dress and Miss America smile and makeup to boot ala tara lipinski or the wholesomeness of Sarah Hughes. she is a girl and yes, her jumps are small but certainly more flow than Tara's which went up andr down kind of on the same spot forget about the edges of Sarah.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    What I would like to see her improve in coming years:

    1. Bigger jumps. I think the other aspects of her jumps besides the lack of height, distance, and sometimes flow out is very good, and her jumps still get pretty good GOE.

    2. Not so much standing in place and doing flexability moves over and over. Needs more variance in her c horeography, although I liked her programs more this year than the past.

    I think she needs to worry about puberty and body changes the most the rest will come along. She unfortunately is not built as strong as Sarah Hughes or Oksana Baiul, Gracie Gold but they all have a year or two on her. she is more reminiscent of the "tiny turning top" Lipinski.

    At least she is trying; Gracie's long program really is the American princess still -she is int he vein of kARYN Cadavy, Nicole Bobeck, Linda Frantiane, ?Rosalyn Sumners, Jill Trenary, Kristi Yamaguchi, Cohen, Kwan, Kerrigan to a point because she really felt the music but they have that pretty Miss America feel. the one exception might be Tonya Harding who was like power in sequins. I appreciate Julia is trying and I was impressed that she seemed to understand the story with the red coat - as soon as I saw the outfit I knew this girl was trying. Remember this isn't acting it is still figure skating We can't all be over the top divas on the ice (that would be boring like Dai, Amodio, or several of the icedancers there needs to be some introspective skates. Remember most ladies don't really seem to interpret they are in the vein of the princess mode delicate at times but always graceful even when trying to be "strong" skating to themusic and timing their jumps and spins and specific footwork to the music -are they interpreting - who really knows but most aren't actors. remember Mirai's carmen - got b ig points at the olympics but that surely was a Miss America skate with no idea of Carmen (though now a days I am sure her coach would say something like it is a modern take on Carmen with the joys of emancipation from men or something lol.

    3. Needs to feel the music better.


    4. Needs more overall speed, power, and ice coverage.


    I do think she can improve in all these areas.
    Dang, i am having trouble with my computer. I agree with Pangton but I think Julia must worry first and foremost about puberty which will affect spins and jumps.

    Second I give her full credit for not taking the easy route like Tara Lipinski who tried to just be a Miss America smile and make up sprite. Julia is a little bit younger than the other girls who were stronger Baiul, Hughes, Bobek who had big jumps. Tara's were worse than Julia - not coming out of footwork or transitions and just went up and down with no coverage. And because of lack of body lines or control Tara appeared more gangly - something about not controlling her feet point or something but she didn't control her lines as well as julia which while gave her a spritely, fun young look not really great for figure skating. I knew she understood the music when she showed up in that red coat (dress). Remember most girls in singles skating aren't really interpereting. Mao and Yuna rely really upon having things coordinated well witht he music and skating withs peed and flow and nice body lines. likewise the American model hasn't changed though Kwan might be an exception as she was more musical in feeling the music but from fleming to Frantiane to Sumners, Bobeck, Cadavy, Trenary, yamaguchi, Flatt, Wagner, Gold, Cohen et al the Miss America princess - trying to look feminien, graceful, delicate at times but noble when showing strength. Rare to find power in sequins skaters like Debi Thomas or Harding. Remember people a classic example of "interpreting" - mirai at the olympics scored well but she was giving the miss america smile and feminine delicacy and power in her Carmen. Clearly she had no idea of the concept of carmen or she had gas with all that smiling. Of course any coach can say this was a modern interpretation of Carmen about the celebration of woman being emancipated from man or something. Julia has a lot of work to do and has to survive puberty but I am not sure she deserves to be criticized so negatively for her artistry. Oh and I am not trying to be mean to Mirai or anyone else - it is just a comment. All the ladies I mentioned as the graceful American princessy types really were top notch skaters including Mirai (well when on of course

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Dang, i am having trouble with my computer. I agree with Pangton but I think Julia must worry first and foremost about puberty which will affect spins and jumps.

    Second I give her full credit for not taking the easy route like Tara Lipinski who tried to just be a Miss America smile and make up sprite. Julia is a little bit younger than the other girls who were stronger Baiul, Hughes, Bobek who had big jumps. Tara's were worse than Julia - not coming out of footwork or transitions and just went up and down with no coverage. And because of lack of body lines or control Tara appeared more gangly - something about not controlling her feet point or something but she didn't control her lines as well as julia which while gave her a spritely, fun young look not really great for figure skating. I knew she understood the music when she showed up in that red coat (dress). Remember most girls in singles skating aren't really interpereting. Mao and Yuna rely really upon having things coordinated well witht he music and skating withs peed and flow and nice body lines. likewise the American model hasn't changed though Kwan might be an exception as she was more musical in feeling the music but from fleming to Frantiane to Sumners, Bobeck, Cadavy, Trenary, yamaguchi, Flatt, Wagner, Gold, Cohen et al the Miss America princess - trying to look feminien, graceful, delicate at times but noble when showing strength. Rare to find power in sequins skaters like Debi Thomas or Harding. Remember people a classic example of "interpreting" - mirai at the olympics scored well but she was giving the miss america smile and feminine delicacy and power in her Carmen. Clearly she had no idea of the concept of carmen or she had gas with all that smiling. Of course any coach can say this was a modern interpretation of Carmen about the celebration of woman being emancipated from man or something. Julia has a lot of work to do and has to survive puberty but I am not sure she deserves to be criticized so negatively for her artistry. Oh and I am not trying to be mean to Mirai or anyone else - it is just a comment. All the ladies I mentioned as the graceful American princessy types really were top notch skaters including Mirai (well when on of course
    I have never been impressed with Hughes jumps a lot were underrotated and I'm not convinced at all that she's better than Tara. I actually found Tara more polished too. Hughes was always very gangly to me. Nice spiral and layback-that's it. I agree I don't think Julia deserves to be criticized for her artistry at all. I think she's developing into a beautiful skater.

    Her jumps are smallish, but you know what Michelle's were never all that big either... I like this program and think Julia is slowly starting to learn to connect to music...

    I also like this approach as well to helping a skater mature musically because its not put upon Miss America, and its also allowing her to be her own age.

  4. #34
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    Too immature

    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    That was an amazing long program! I only wish she were a little older and more seasoned, so that she could challenge Yu Na. I want to see a competition, not a coronation.
    I know she can jump. And, she may develop into a fantastic skater. Or, she may be gone in a flash. But, right now she´s gawky and knock kneed much of the time. I don´t undersand why the ISU is so inamored with these waifs. Of course these girls can jump. They don´t have yet a woman´s proportion of muscle, fat and bone density. It´s not fair to skaters who have a women´s body and have labored long to develop beautiful lines and athleticism.

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    Am always surprised and impressed about the consistency of her somewhat unconventional (more roller-skating like) entry into her double axel jump. Great distance and smoothness but a tad scary for me to watch

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    Quote Originally Posted by karlowens2 View Post
    I know she can jump. And, she may develop into a fantastic skater. Or, she may be gone in a flash. But, right now she´s gawky and knock kneed much of the time. I don´t undersand why the ISU is so inamored with these waifs. Of course these girls can jump. They don´t have yet a woman´s proportion of muscle, fat and bone density. It´s not fair to skaters who have a women´s body and have labored long to develop beautiful lines and athleticism.
    exactly. she is to young to interpret much. she is years away from Mao, Cari, Ashley, Yuna-please-another little kid who jumps when skinny and tiny. We shall see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    Whether or not she expresses it adequately in your or anyone's opinion, she understands what she's skating to. She chose the music after watching Schindler's list and being moved by the little girl in the red coat's story. Given that, I don't think there can be much doubt that she knows what she's skating to and what she's trying to convey. Again if she is doing so or could do so better is a different question.
    just like gracie watched sleeping beauty and being moved by the evil witch or whatever.
    Of course she knows she is skating to a girl in a red coat. I mean, she is not ********. But does she know what she is skating to? All I see is the same face in the SP going thru the motion.

    Everything about this girl is lacking. Skating skills, speed is average. Jumps are abysmal. Wait until she grows a bit and tell me if she is a talented jumper.

    Just a very consistent little girl with no other remarkable quality. Is this girl this year's Tuktamesheva? Flavor of the month? I feel sad for her because in a year this girl will be trashed like old newspaper, making room for another 12yo who can jump.

    Yet, we have some people crowning her as olympics medalist already. Hilarious!

    Podium is locked. Just like 2010. Rochette's PCS shot up by 10 points in the same season, guaranteed her a meddal over inspiring nagasu. Flatt was kept down at first to guarantee the top 3 medalists.

    I see the samething happen in 2014. No matter how this chic skates, she aint coming near the podium. Rightfully so

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    If mao, yuna, carolina can put out at least 4 or 5 triples, it doesn't matter what anyone else do.
    If Ashley skates first in the ultimate group, watch her getting hit with loads of URs.
    Gracie? She will self destruct. And her PCS will be 12 points below the top 3.
    Julia? A few URs, low PCS.
    Anyone else?

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    By the way, I think the American girls make a strong team for Sochi. They are contenders for sure, and Gracie, if clean 'course, should surpass at least Carolina, who is prone to mistakes...There is time for every skater to improve till Sochi

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I have never been impressed with Hughes jumps a lot were underrotated and I'm not convinced at all that she's better than Tara. I actually found Tara more polished too. Hughes was always very gangly to me. Nice spiral and layback-that's it. I
    Tara for sure is a way better skater than Hughes. Hughes had better spins (apart from the sit spin, Tara's was much better), and better spirals, but that is it.

    Tara's jumps were light years better, not huge but probably bigger than Sarah's, and other than the lack of height Tara's were exceptional in everyway- position in air, flow out, trajectory, timing, rotation. Sarah's are ordinary in everyway. Tara was super consistent doing 7 triples and the hardest triple-triples ever done (apart from the triple lutz-triple loop some women since have done). Sarah sometimes stood up some badly pre rotated and cheated triple-triples. Tara had one small technical issue with the flutz, but Hughes had a 5 time worse flutz, a mule kicking lutz, flip, and toe, and amazingly even sometimes managed to lip on her flip despite being one of the worst flutzers ever.

    Tara had much better basics, was much faster, had much more command and presence. Tara in her prime beat Michelle Kwan 4 times out of 5 meetings, and won 5 of the 6 biggest events she was in. Tara beat a clean Michelle Kwan to win the Olympics, and regularly was beating both Kwan and Slutskaya at her peak. Sarah could never dream of doing such things. Had Irina (despite a very poor skate for her standards) gotten 5.8 from the Finnish judge for presentation rather than a 5.7 in the SLC LP, Sarah would have never placed higher than 3rd in any major event. She never won her own Nationals and only placed as high as 2nd twice.

    Worst skater to win the Olympics is defintely a toss up between Hughes and Poetzsch. Tara today is far more highly respected and left a much greater legacy in the skating World than Hughes.

  11. #41
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue
    They are contenders for sure, and Gracie, if clean 'course, should surpass at least Carolina, who is prone to mistakes...There is time for every skater to improve till Sochi
    Why would it be more likely for Gracie to go clean than for Carolina? Yes, Caro is unlikely to be clean, but so is Gracie...

    I really liked Julia at SC despite being lukewarm on her before, but people saying she was 'a thread to the big 3' or things like that irk me a little. If Mao/Caro/Yuna bomb of course others skating well will beat them. But that doesn't mean being a threat to someone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Why would it be more likely for Gracie to go clean than for Carolina? Yes, Caro is unlikely to be clean, but so is Gracie...
    Gold is definitely not anymore likely to go clean than Kostner. I dont believe either have ever done a clean competition to date, so until Gold (or Kostner) proves otherwise the odds are probably the same of a clean competition for either- zero.

    Kostner however is the more likely to limit her mistakes, something she has become very good at doing the last 2 years, than Gold who only an a particular good outing (Skate Canada and Worlds this past year were actually examples of this for her standards) limits her mistakes to something reasonable. In addition to having more overall scoring potential of course.

    Julia is a legit threat to Kostner and Mao IMO though as unlike Gold she is far more consistent than either Kostner or Mao. Yu Na Kim matches Julia's consistency and so of course Julia is no threat to Yu Na who has the same consistency and light years more scoring potential, but she is a threat to Kostner and Mao purely due to her much greater consistency. Being a threat to Kostner and Asada is not the same thing as being a threat to Kim given that Yu Na in a typical competition (I mean what they do on average, not the hypothetical best we imagine for each) scores about 20 points higher than Kostner and Asada. Kostner and Asada are the only two skaters who a threats to Kim on an unlikely day they skated perfectly they could beat Kim, especialy in a rare day Kim makes a mistake or two. However many more skaters are potential threats to Kostner and Asada than are threats to Kim, as Kim is too consistent to be threatened by skaters who need her to bomb to beat them. Asada and Kostner though are quite bomb or atleast semi bomb capable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Tara for sure is a way better skater than Hughes. Hughes had better spins (apart from the sit spin, Tara's was much better), and better spirals, but that is it.

    Tara's jumps were light years better, not huge but probably bigger than Sarah's, and other than the lack of height Tara's were exceptional in everyway- position in air, flow out, trajectory, timing, rotation. Sarah's are ordinary in everyway. Tara was super consistent doing 7 triples and the hardest triple-triples ever done (apart from the triple lutz-triple loop some women since have done). Sarah sometimes stood up some badly pre rotated and cheated triple-triples. Tara had one small technical issue with the flutz, but Hughes had a 5 time worse flutz, a mule kicking lutz, flip, and toe, and amazingly even sometimes managed to lip on her flip despite being one of the worst flutzers ever.

    Tara had much better basics, was much faster, had much more command and presence. Tara in her prime beat Michelle Kwan 4 times out of 5 meetings, and won 5 of the 6 biggest events she was in. Tara beat a clean Michelle Kwan to win the Olympics, and regularly was beating both Kwan and Slutskaya at her peak. Sarah could never dream of doing such things. Had Irina (despite a very poor skate for her standards) gotten 5.8 from the Finnish judge for presentation rather than a 5.7 in the SLC LP, Sarah would have never placed higher than 3rd in any major event. She never won her own Nationals and only placed as high as 2nd twice.

    Worst skater to win the Olympics is defintely a toss up between Hughes and Poetzsch. Tara today is far more highly respected and left a much greater legacy in the skating World than Hughes.
    Tara would get killed today if she was skating in this scoring system with her tiny jumps and that 2axel which was as bad as Julia Lipnitskaia's. As for being highly respected i think Tara is forgotten like Hughes is. As for beating Irina Slutskaya she didn't hit her peak until a couple years after Tara retired. Tara would have had to improve big time in this scoring system such as her spins also which were nothing special.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Gold is definitely not anymore likely to go clean than Kostner. I dont believe either have ever done a clean competition to date, so until Gold (or Kostner) proves otherwise the odds are probably the same of a clean competition for either- zero..
    In a weird way I feel Gracie's slightly more likely to go clean because she's still knew on the circuit. Kostner is well improving competition wise but she's been on the circuit longer than anyone....Lightning could strike but...

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    OK Irina was a far better skater in 2000-2005 than 96-98 so maybe I shouldnt have mentioned her. Even so we can compare how both did vs Michelle Kwan accurately, and Kwan if anything was at her peak as a skater in 96-98, not the 2000s. Hughes still was nowhere near the same thread.

    Tara is not forgotten. She isnt exactly an icon but she is brought up often all the same. How can you not be when you had an epic rivalry with Michelle Kwan, who is still one of the most famous skaters of all time. That alone ensures Tara and Irina will always be brought up, as they were the only two real rivals Kwan ever had in that relatively weak era (Irina would be famous in Europe mind you, even without her rivalry with Kwan, in fact she is a bigger star in Europe than Kwan is).

    Prime Tara would not get killed under COP. She had good quality jumps, except the 2 axel, and the flutz. Anyway if you think Tara would get killed under COP, then Hughes would probably never get out of Sectionals under COP. She would only have 1 or 2 ratified triples per program for starters.

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