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Thread: Which American Men do you want on the Olympic Team?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    Macy, I am so with you on Adam and Jeremy!! Adam is looking so strong and with clean programs could actually medal. Seriously! Gorgeous artistry, a quad lutz, and technical fixes from Rafael. A good head space too. and Ashley would be with him to support him!

    Re Jeremy: I ADORE his skating and him and want him to break through so badly but he has muffed, failed, or otherwise screwed up so many times now that I just can't hope anymore- it's too painful! and I worry that he could skate great at Nationals and then fall apart at the Olympics- like he did last time! That's one of the reasons why it's so upsetting that we don't have 3 spots- I'd like Jeremy to skate solidly but not fabulously at Nationals (double his 2nd axel and not land his quad but otherwise clean) and then have his perfect performance (8 triples plus quad as he did at 2010 Nationals) at the Olympics and win a bronze!

    Re Max- I like him fine as a skater and very much as a person, and I do agree with you that he's made strides with his artistry this year. What I'm worried about are his jumps! I saw him in Salt Lake City and at Skate America and his jumping is off this season! Here's hoping you're right that he'll pull it together in time for Nationals/Worlds.
    You put it so well. I think Adam is coming into his own, Jeremy gave us a reminder how good he is when he is on and Max showed this season that his jumps must be landed for him to be nearer the placements of Jeremy and Adam with mistakes.

  2. #152
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    Oh my gosh, golden411, that is hilarious about my typo! I know some people on this board have described Max as skating like a hockey player.

    ....

    I think the thing re Max's season is that he was just awful at SLC too and he hasn't shown much improvement and the thing that sets him apart- his quad- has mostly deserted him. Jeremy had a strong skate at Japan Open, then a terrible competition, and then a great one. He is also a much more complete skater and with a clean program could potentially even medal at Olympics. Max without his jumps just can't score well and he doesn't have his jumps yet. That's not to say he won't get them, but if we had to vote today, I would vote for Adam for sure and probably Jeremy or Jason/Josh who are both more complete skaters than Max.

    Also, Max's short at Skate America was much worse/more error-ridden than Jeremy's at NHK- the competition at NHK was stiffer and so Jeremy ended up 7th but only out of third by a tiny margin. In the Olympics, a short like the one Max skated at Skate America/NHK would have him totally out of contention while Jeremy's NHK short would probably have him much higher up.

    I am not a Max hater at all- I love his personality and admire his work ethic and athleticism but without his jumps being solid, consistent, and strong, I don't think he should go to Olympics or Worlds.
    I see that karne gave you the basic scoop re Max's significant career as a teen hockey player. I could go on and on to tell you more, but will try not to get toooo long-winded:
    - Some of Max's hockey buddies from his time on the national squad went on to play in the NHL -- that's why I could not resist my friendly comment on your typo.
    - Because of Max's relatively small size, his parents and he accepted that the NHL would not be in his future. But Max was scouted by colleges with Division I hockey teams, including the University of Michigan (his father's alma mater), where Max dreamed of playing.
    - D-I hockey was a very realistic prospect for Max ... until his career ended when he broke his back. After being in a body cast for months, Max had to re-learn basic movements, such as walking, bending over, etc. He decided to concentrate on figure skating (which he had been juggling with hockey since boyhood). While still in high school, he moved to Colorado Springs to train, leaving most of his family behind in Arizona. The next year (IIRC), Max won junior nationals, and then he moved up to seniors.
    - I think you will enjoy this really fun and impressive video montage of some of young Max's hockey action.
    I know next to nothing about the sport (so I'm probably going to botch the terminology), but Max's tenacity and fearlessness amid much larger opponents are just magnificent even to my uneducated eye. My favorite play is when he ends up sort of passing to himself to score ... meaning that he passes to the right as he approaches the goal; then skates off to the left and darts behind the goal, scooting back around to the right to the "waiting" puck and shoots it into the goal.

    ETA:
    Forgot to say that my current avatar happens to be based on a photo of Max in his hockey jersey.
    But I should have already updated my avatar for TEB. Will be changing it soon.

    Back to discussing the American men:
    What I really should have said is that I don't see that Abbott is having a much more consistent season than Max.
    And overall, I do not find the current landscape as discouraging for Max as you do. A million different comparisons could be made -- some in Max's favor, some not.
    - Rippon has beaten Max overall twice this season, although Max beat Rippon in the FS at Skate America.
    - Abbott has beaten Max once, although Max also won a GP bronze.
    - Max beat Brown overall at Skate America, although Brown was well ahead in the SP.
    - Max beat Farris in SLC, although it was early in the season.
    etc., etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    He, like everyone else, MUST be in the top 2 at Nationals to go. None of our men have had a strong enough season to deserve special treatment.

  3. #153
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    FWIW, Max's 162+ in the FS is still the highest among the US men and that program still had a few errors, while Jeremy's 159+ was for a nearly-clean program. And they both have a GP bronze medal.

    Max has the ability to reach 90+ TES while Jeremy has been in the low 80s at best.

    Point is, I agree with golden411 that the data shows Max in both favorable and unfavorable perspectives. And in general, based on the data we have, Adam is the only one that has a far-and-above positive trending leading up to nationals. Max is not a sure thing, but he's still a contender for the team for sure.

    Sadly with Ross out of TEB, we won't be able to see another data point for him before nationals.

    Looking forward to seeing how Jason, Josh and Richard do in their second events!

  4. #154
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post

    Sadly with Ross out of TEB, we won't be able to see another data point for him before nationals.
    Oh, no! I hope he'll be totally fine for Nationals!

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvtodd View Post
    Oh, no! I hope he'll be totally fine for Nationals!
    From what I hear, it's a very small injury in his ankle, but they didn't want to risk making it worse by going to TEB.

  6. #156
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    The two I want on the US team would have to be Max and Adam. If there were three spots, I would have to put Jason Brown in that position. Max normally isn't amazing in the beginning of the season and I will really be shocked if he doesn't make the team. I think Abbott is a headcase and unreliable to an extent. I have always been a fan, but he hardly ever puts it together when it counts. Everyone else is just inconsistent altogether and I don't see Evan coming back.

  7. #157
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    Adam for sure. If one of Jeremy, Max or Jason also make it that'd be just fine too.

  8. #158
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    As always so stunningly useful to see the actual numbers.

    "Who is it looking like so far…?" vs. "Who do we want to see" …hmmm

  9. #159
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    As always so stunningly useful to see the actual numbers.

    "Who is it looking like so far…?" vs. "Who do we want to see" …hmmm
    At this point,I think it's going to be a dog fight between Jason, Adam, Max and Jeremy.

    Out of the four of them, Max has the biggest BV in the FS with three quads, including one in the second half. His BV allows him to make a few mistakes, but not too many because he doesn't have the other areas to back him up. But if gets that 90+ TES, that will make a key difference.

    Jason is great all-around, but he has to be absolutely perfect or make a minimal amount of mistakes. It's crazy to think that he could have scored 165.72 if he got that other axel (BV not accounting for any GOE). However, his non-jump elements are super strong, probably the strongest among the American men. He scored 22 points in his non-jump elements compared to 20.22 for Jeremy at NHK, who also got all level 4 elements.

    Adam has been consistent throughout the season and he's been consistent in both segments. It looks like he is mastering the 4T at least, which will give him the edge over Jason if he's clean.

    Jeremy is still a question mark. It's great he pulled out a clean program, but that's just one performance. Can he pull it off again at Nationals. If he does, the judges will reward him.

    However, all bets are off if Josh and Richard impress at COR next week. Ross is also a question mark since we won't see him compete until nationals.

  10. #160
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    Ross is pretty much out of it at this point. I cant imagine anything he would do after all his poor performanes since last years Nationals would get him on the team unless it is a disaesterously skated Nationals. Richard and Josh have one last chance to impress like many others have already done at COR and they had better take it. I don't think the U.S judges will give someone the scores who hasn't shown something this season already, even if they skate very well at Nationals.

  11. #161
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    Updated, revised and reposted for Trophee Eric Bompard! In addition, I am changing the scoring tracker to give points to the top 5 to show a bit more nuance in the scoring.

    Jason: 129
    Adam: 122
    Jeremy: 79
    Max: 55

    Comments:
    1.) These four men were the only ones to receive any points, so it's pretty clear who the contenders are at this point. Of course all bets are off if Richard and Josh do well at COR.
    2.) Jason and Adam look the most consistent so far. Jason has done well in the SP. He did poorly in the FS at Skate America, but did much better at TEB and I think we're seeing an upward trend. Adam has done well all-around. Jeremy has high PCS overall in his favor, but consistency keeps him from scoring higher. Max is the opposite, he has TES to help him, but PCS is lacking and consistency is also an issue.

    Anyone feel I should account for Senior B scores as well? I can, if you guys feel it would provide some better trending....



    ****BREAK DOWN OF SCORES***8

    Total score
    Jason Brown 243.09 (Trophee Eric Bompard)
    Adam Rippon 241.24 (Skate America)
    Max Aaron 238.36 (Skate America)
    ---------------------------------------
    Jeremy Abbott 237.41 (NHK Trophy)
    Adam Rippon 233.71 (NHK Trophy)
    Jason Brown 231.03 (Skate America)
    Max Aaron 223.35 (NHK Trophy)
    Richard Dornbush 218.57 (Cup of China)
    Joshua Farris 216.72 (Skate Canada)
    Jeremy Abbott 215.95 (Skate Canada)
    Ross Miner 196.89 (Skate Canada)

    Short Program
    Jason Brown 84.77 (TEB)
    Jason Brown 83.78 (SA)
    Adam Rippon 82.25 (NHK)
    ---------------------------
    Adam Rippon 80.26 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott: 78.78 (NHK)
    Max Aaron: 76.21 (NHK)
    Max Aaron 75.91 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott 74.58 (SC)
    Richard Dornbush 72.58 (COC)
    Joshua Farris 69.14 (SC)
    Ross Miner 66.71 (SC)


    Short Program TES
    Jason Brown 45.98 (TEB)
    Jason Brown 44.85 (SA)
    Adam Rippon 44.80 (NHK)
    ---------------------------
    Adam Rippon 43.23 (SA)
    Max Aaron 41.37 (SA)
    Max Aaron 40.65 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott: 38.82 (NHK)
    Richard Dornbush 36.47 (COC)
    Jeremy Abbott 35.30 (SC)
    Josh Farris 33.11 (SC)
    Ross Miner 32.15 (SC)

    Short Program PCS
    Jeremy Abbott 39.96 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott 39.28 (SC)
    Jason Brown 38.93 (SA)
    --------------------------
    Jason Brown 38.79 (TEB)
    Adam Rippon 37.85 (NHK)
    Adam Rippon 37.03 (SA)
    Ross Miner 36.56 (SC)
    Richard Dornbush 36.11 (COC)
    Max Aaron 36.56 (NHK)
    Josh Farris 36.03 (SC)
    Max Aaron 34.68 (SA)

    Free Skate
    Max Aaron: 162.45 (SA)
    Adam Rippon: 160.98 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott 158.63 (NHK)
    ------------------------------
    Jason Brown: 158.32 (TEB)
    Adam Rippon: 151.46
    Joshua Farris: 147.58 (SC)
    Jason Brown: 147.25 (SA)
    Max Aaron: 147.14 (NHK)
    Richard Dornbush: 145.99 (COC)
    Jeremy Abbott: 141.37 (SC)
    Ross Miner: 130.18 (SC)

    Free Skate TES
    Max Aaron: 90.47
    Adam Rippon: 83.01
    Jeremy Abbott: 78.25
    ------------------------
    Jason Brown: 78.20
    Max Aaron: 78.20
    Richard Dornbush 76.61
    Joshua Farris: 74.80
    Adam Rippon 73.60
    Jason Brown: 68.69
    Jeremy Abbot: 65.59
    Ross Miner: 60.54

    Free Skate PCS
    Adam Rippon: 82.08 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott: 80.38 (NHK)
    Jason Brown: 80.12 (TEB)
    -----------------------
    Jason Brown: 79.56 (SA)
    Adam Rippon: 77.86 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott: 77.78 (SC)
    Joshua Farris: 73.78
    Max Aaron: 72.98
    Richard Dornbush 70.38
    Ross Miner: 69.64

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Ross is pretty much out of it at this point. I cant imagine anything he would do after all his poor performanes since last years Nationals would get him on the team unless it is a disaesterously skated Nationals. Richard and Josh have one last chance to impress like many others have already done at COR and they had better take it. I don't think the U.S judges will give someone the scores who hasn't shown something this season already, even if they skate very well at Nationals.
    I totally agree about Ross. He has been frankly dreadful since Nationals. and I was a fan of his! Also, to be brutally honest, I find myself feeling like Ross is the reason we don't have 3 spots so to give him a spot if he miraculously manages to pull off a good skate at Nationals after a string of poor performances seems just not right to me.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    I totally agree about Ross. He has been frankly dreadful since Nationals. and I was a fan of his! Also, to be brutally honest, I find myself feeling like Ross is the reason we don't have 3 spots so to give him a spot if he miraculously manages to pull off a good skate at Nationals after a string of poor performances seems just not right to me.
    Very true, and it will never happen. The U.S judges will be very careful to who they put on that team. The guys who make it will have to skate well at Nationals, but will also have had to skated well prior to Nationals IMO. The one who has done the best combination of both will be the two to make it.

    No way Ross Miner is making the team.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Very true, and it will never happen. The U.S judges will be very careful to who they put on that team. The guys who make it will have to skate well at Nationals, but will also have had to skated well prior to Nationals IMO. The one who has done the best combination of both will be the two to make it.

    No way Ross Miner is making the team.
    I hope you're right, PangTong fan! This is the way it SHOULD be done, I think.

    BTW, congrats on your team's victory today! They are beautiful and touching- I love them too!

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Updated, revised and reposted for Trophee Eric Bompard! In addition, I am changing the scoring tracker to give points to the top 5 to show a bit more nuance in the scoring.

    Jason: 129
    Adam: 122
    Jeremy: 79
    Max: 55

    Comments:
    1.) These four men were the only ones to receive any points, so it's pretty clear who the contenders are at this point. Of course all bets are off if Richard and Josh do well at COR.
    2.) Jason and Adam look the most consistent so far. Jason has done well in the SP. He did poorly in the FS at Skate America, but did much better at TEB and I think we're seeing an upward trend. Adam has done well all-around. Jeremy has high PCS overall in his favor, but consistency keeps him from scoring higher. Max is the opposite, he has TES to help him, but PCS is lacking and consistency is also an issue.

    Anyone feel I should account for Senior B scores as well? I can, if you guys feel it would provide some better trending....



    ****BREAK DOWN OF SCORES***8

    Total score
    Jason Brown 243.09 (Trophee Eric Bompard)
    Adam Rippon 241.24 (Skate America)
    Max Aaron 238.36 (Skate America)
    ---------------------------------------
    Jeremy Abbott 237.41 (NHK Trophy)
    Adam Rippon 233.71 (NHK Trophy)
    Jason Brown 231.03 (Skate America)
    Max Aaron 223.35 (NHK Trophy)
    Richard Dornbush 218.57 (Cup of China)
    Joshua Farris 216.72 (Skate Canada)
    Jeremy Abbott 215.95 (Skate Canada)
    Ross Miner 196.89 (Skate Canada)

    Short Program
    Jason Brown 84.77 (TEB)
    Jason Brown 83.78 (SA)
    Adam Rippon 82.25 (NHK)
    ---------------------------
    Adam Rippon 80.26 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott: 78.78 (NHK)
    Max Aaron: 76.21 (NHK)
    Max Aaron 75.91 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott 74.58 (SC)
    Richard Dornbush 72.58 (COC)
    Joshua Farris 69.14 (SC)
    Ross Miner 66.71 (SC)


    Short Program TES
    Jason Brown 45.98 (TEB)
    Jason Brown 44.85 (SA)
    Adam Rippon 44.80 (NHK)
    ---------------------------
    Adam Rippon 43.23 (SA)
    Max Aaron 41.37 (SA)
    Max Aaron 40.65 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott: 38.82 (NHK)
    Richard Dornbush 36.47 (COC)
    Jeremy Abbott 35.30 (SC)
    Josh Farris 33.11 (SC)
    Ross Miner 32.15 (SC)

    Short Program PCS
    Jeremy Abbott 39.96 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott 39.28 (SC)
    Jason Brown 38.93 (SA)
    --------------------------
    Jason Brown 38.79 (TEB)
    Adam Rippon 37.85 (NHK)
    Adam Rippon 37.03 (SA)
    Ross Miner 36.56 (SC)
    Richard Dornbush 36.11 (COC)
    Max Aaron 36.56 (NHK)
    Josh Farris 36.03 (SC)
    Max Aaron 34.68 (SA)

    Free Skate
    Max Aaron: 162.45 (SA)
    Adam Rippon: 160.98 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott 158.63 (NHK)
    ------------------------------
    Jason Brown: 158.32 (TEB)
    Adam Rippon: 151.46
    Joshua Farris: 147.58 (SC)
    Jason Brown: 147.25 (SA)
    Max Aaron: 147.14 (NHK)
    Richard Dornbush: 145.99 (COC)
    Jeremy Abbott: 141.37 (SC)
    Ross Miner: 130.18 (SC)

    Free Skate TES
    Max Aaron: 90.47
    Adam Rippon: 83.01
    Jeremy Abbott: 78.25
    ------------------------
    Jason Brown: 78.20
    Max Aaron: 78.20
    Richard Dornbush 76.61
    Joshua Farris: 74.80
    Adam Rippon 73.60
    Jason Brown: 68.69
    Jeremy Abbot: 65.59
    Ross Miner: 60.54

    Free Skate PCS
    Adam Rippon: 82.08 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott: 80.38 (NHK)
    Jason Brown: 80.12 (TEB)
    -----------------------
    Jason Brown: 79.56 (SA)
    Adam Rippon: 77.86 (NHK)
    Jeremy Abbott: 77.78 (SC)
    Joshua Farris: 73.78
    Max Aaron: 72.98
    Richard Dornbush 70.38
    Ross Miner: 69.64
    Thank you so much as always! I know Jason did really well in his Senior B, at Nebelhorn- didn't he skate two clean programs there? and Jeremy was good at the Japan Open. Did Adam compete in any Senior Bs? Max won but was weak at SLC.

    I just don't see Max making the team at this point- having the quads planned means nothing if he can't execute them. and he's only executed one- very shaky- quad in major competitions this season.

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