Who would you rank as the current American ladies number 1: Gracie Gold or Ashley Wagner? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Who would you rank as the current American ladies number 1: Gracie Gold or Ashley Wagner?

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
1 Gracie Gold - superior skater, hollywood like beauty
big jumps, difficult 3-3's, amazing speed, more artistic than Wagner

2 Ashley Wagner -
two footed 3-3's, flutzer, ok speed and skating skills but
she is old and is worn out
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I do think Gracie has made improvements under Frank so far, particularly in her presentation. She's a little less stiff, the samurai sword arms have calmed down a little bit, and she did look more relaxed in the SP. However, she was right back to regular old nervous Gracie in the FS. Only two of her jumping passes were clean (3L and 2A-2T-2T); every other jump was tight b/c she was nervous. The program slowly unraveled but she managed to barely hang on and not completely fall to pieces. I do think she kept the program up better (didn't go 100% blank in the face) which is good but overall, that was not a good performance by the standards she is being held to. That said she still scored very well and landed on the podium but this was a missed opportunity for Gracie.

Maybe it's because I didn't watch it in real-time (I watched it the day after), but I don't agree that the mistakes she made in the middle of the program were wholly due to nerves. To me the errors in the middle she made were a lack of focus. She did not look especially tense after she made those mistakes and got up pretty quickly after making them.

Lack of focus isn't good either, but the errors she made seem like ones you make when you're not 100 percent focused. I do think she was nervous at the beginning, hence the relative tightness of her 3Z-3T and the 2A error, but I though she looked a lot more relaxed as the program went on.

You're right that it was not a good performance as far as what she is capable of doing, but I think she looked pretty calm when she was done and in the Kiss and Cry she didn't look all that dejected about getting bronze (neither was Frank).
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
right now Ashley is no. 1 She has the experience. She has the name. She has the consistency. She has the world ranking. She has the confidence. but ice is slippery and the season is long. Who knows.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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Joined
May 19, 2011
Maybe it's because I didn't watch it in real-time (I watched it the day after), but I don't agree that the mistakes she made in the middle of the program were wholly due to nerves. To me the errors in the middle she made were a lack of focus. She did not look especially tense after she made those mistakes and got up pretty quickly after making them.

Lack of focus isn't good either, but the errors she made seem like ones you make when you're not 100 percent focused. I do think she was nervous at the beginning, hence the relative tightness of her 3Z-3T and the 2A error, but I though she looked a lot more relaxed as the program went on.

You're right that it was not a good performance as far as what she is capable of doing, but I think she looked pretty calm when she was done and in the Kiss and Cry she didn't look all that dejected about getting bronze (neither was Frank).

Lack of focus is usually a result of nerves IMO. You're nervous so you start thinking about other things and instead of focusing on what you need to do. Gracie was tight pretty much the entire time. She got tighter and more nervous as the program went on: the tilted abrupt landing on the flip, followed by a fall on the lutz and the complete lost-in-the-air miss on the 3S...I think she was lucky the program ended when it did.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Lack of focus is usually a result of nerves IMO. You're nervous so you start thinking about other things and instead of focusing on what you need to do. Gracie was tight pretty much the entire time. She got tighter and more nervous as the program went on: the tilted abrupt landing on the flip, followed by a fall on the lutz and the complete lost-in-the-air miss on the 3S...I think she was lucky the program ended when it did.

Well I think in any case, I don't think it was a complete meltdown. That was SLC. This was not a great performance, but it wasn't terrible either. 117+ is not a bad score considering the mistakes.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
Well I think in any case, I don't think it was a complete meltdown. That was SLC. This was not a great performance, but it wasn't terrible either. 117+ is not a bad score considering the mistakes.

I agree. She kept fighting even though the jumps were getting away from her. I do think she did a better job of not completely zoning out and going dead in the face despite the fact the program was going downhill. She's definitely made improvements in terms of her performance and presentation (hallelujah!). Plus, even though the jumps were tight and a bit wonky, she rotated everything, though IMO I did think a few of those looked UR. I don't know if she did rotate everything or if the callers were just being nice.

She has improved but she still has a lot of work to do especially in terms of competing. Gracie has to learn to compete under pressure. It's easier said than done but if she can only skate well when coming from behind when there's less pressure to perform, she's never going to win gold.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I can understand how people believe Gracie has the potential to overtake Ashley but that has not happened. For now, our two-time USA champion is clearly the top USA lady. Anyway, it's exciting to have them both on the scene. I am just as excited to see that Ashley is still at the top of her game as I am to see Gracie moving up and able to make the top ladies look over their shoulders.
 

jenaj

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Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Why is there any dispute, right now? And I think clean skates by Ashley beat clean skates by Gracie, so Ashley can control her own destiny.
 

Ruffles78

On the Ice
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Oct 17, 2011
Ashley is # 1. Gracie needs a lot of improvement in presentation. If both skate clean with their current programs, Ashley will win. Gracie's short program this season is crap. The long program is effective in some areas. Even if you don't like Ashley's programs this season, she is committed to the choreography, and Gracie still throws a lot of the moves away. Gracie has the potential to be#1.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
...but Ashley is the superior competitor. She has the focus and mental toughness Gracie lacks. There's no guarantee Gracie will ever gain that mental toughness/focus. If/when she does she will probably be unstoppable...but as of now, Ashley's consistency and competitiveness trump Gracie's potential greatness.

Just remember, that until 2 years ago, Ashley was the one with competitor's nerves/issues and didn't make a world team until she realized how much she wanted it and how she had to get there. She had a meh fall under Nicks that first year but was gangbusters at Nationals and deservedly and convincingly won that title. While Gracie's a little younger, she's following that blueprint - taking control of her own skating, choosing her own coach, etc and they are just getting their team work together.
 

sequinsgalore

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Joined
Dec 12, 2008
For now it is: 1. Ashley Wagner, 2. Gracie Gold.

I do, however, think that Gold has more potential due to her better skating skills, jumps and spins. If she can find some consistency, she will be No. 1. But it's not a given that it'll happen. But if she keeps improving...
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Joined
Feb 17, 2010

I like her mindset. Even if she doesn't win an Olympic medal I sense that she will be very satisfied with her career just for having had the Olympic experience and her many titles. I do hope she is able to at least win a world medal before she retires because she is very deserving of one.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
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Jun 16, 2010
I think even if both skate cleanly Ashley should win now that she is doing the triple-triples. I still think Gold has superior jumps, spins, and skating skills, but with her many deficiencies in presentation, and with both doing about the same difficulty (atleast in the LP) now if the PCS is marked correctly Ashley should win. Especialy since Gold's Power Witch program is absolutely hideous. However should and will are different. Gold gets PCS that vastly overvalue her current skating. The skating skills are there, but the rest is meh, but the scores hardly reflect that accurately. Even with mistakes Gold gets ridiculously inflated PCS.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I think Wagner should win on the PCS mark even if I dislike her R&J program, but Gold attacks her jumps and executes them better. Frankly I'm not a fan of either of their freeskates. Good for Ashley for getting her 3F-3T, but there's such a tentative nature to her jumps that I find myself holding my breath.

I think Wagner has much more potential to win an Olympic medal, but it could go either way. I think a lot of people are making assumptions based off Skate America and Skate Canada. Both girls have made progress but they'll have to skate much better if they want to threaten in Sochi.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
IF (and this is a BIG IF, folks) both skate cleanly, I would give the edge to Gold. Wagner won't be far behind, however. This is why it is imperative that Gold really nails her SP because there is little to no room for error (especially with Wagner now doing 3-3s). Getting on the Olympic team shouldn't be too much of an issue IF she avoids meltdown in either portion, but if she wants to win, it will take TWO clean or near-clean programs.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Wagner's programs are weaker than previous ones.
So her high PCS are equally undeserving.

Gold's PCS is ridiculous.
SS should be 7.5 to 8.
TR should be 7 to 7.5
CH should be 4
PE should be a 4.5 to 5
IN should be 3

Ashley
SS should be 7 to 7.5
TR should be 7 to 7.5
CH should be 6 (really, her LP is not good)
PE should be 6
IN should be 6

Gold's superior TES should pull her ahead. But barely.

Now, if Wagner has better programs, I can see if both are clean, Wagner should come out ahead.
 

smontgomery

Rinkside
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Jan 26, 2007
Country
United-States
Ashley, with Gracie behind. In my opinion Gracie needs to work on keeping her arms under control, to much flying around.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Wagner's programs are weaker than previous ones.
So her high PCS are equally undeserving.

Gold's PCS is ridiculous.
SS should be 7.5 to 8.
TR should be 7 to 7.5
CH should be 4
PE should be a 4.5 to 5
IN should be 3

Ashley
SS should be 7 to 7.5
TR should be 7 to 7.5
CH should be 6 (really, her LP is not good)
PE should be 6
IN should be 6

Gold's superior TES should pull her ahead. But barely.

Now, if Wagner has better programs, I can see if both are clean, Wagner should come out ahead.

Another rare occasion when we agree, though I'd have Gold slightly lower on PE than you- maybe 4 to 4.5 absolute max. I'd also give Wagner 7 to 7.5 on PE and IN in the short this year- 6 to 6.5 in the long. I'd have ranked her higher on those last year and the year before though. Maybe she can still find her 'mojo' with these programs as the season goes on, but were I her I'd be thinking of making major changes to the long.
 
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