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Thread: Who would you rank as the current American ladies number 1: Gracie Gold or Ashley Wagner?

  1. #16
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    When Gracie will gain confidence and commitment as Ashley has now, she will go over her. The question is how soon it will be happened. And when it happens it will be truly exciting to watch figure skating.

  2. #17
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    Ashley still has much room for improvement... in her short program she still can get more points to increase their levels in spins (her SP will break down 70's++), and Gracie has done it all on level 4 in sp.. Gracie certainly can not achieve the Ashley advantage in their PCS .. so it is more than clear, Ashley is number one for a long time now and surely!

  3. #18
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    To me it's clear Ashley is #1. Gracie is improving in some areas, but regressing in others. Specifically, her jump consistency is not there. Although I am not crazy about Ashley's programs this season, she has added a good number of points to her BV with the 3/3 which has allowed her to score in the 120's even with a few URs, two-footed landings, and low level spins.

  4. #19
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Gracie's jump consistency in competition has been lacking since she moved to Seniors. She's had more issues with SP than LP until SCI last weekend. I consider her competition at SCI a step in the right direction - yes, she made 3 mistakes in the LP, but she never gave up on the performance and still managed to finish on the podium (and still scored in the top 3 in the LP). She's been working with FrankC for ~ a month and I saw some marked improvements in her use of arms (until she fell on the Lz in the LP) and her approach to the programs. She looked a lot less tense starting both programs here than she has previously AND she seemed to be enjoying herself, even with mistakes which is AWESOME because at the end of the day, if you aren't enjoying it, why do it? Looking forward to seeing how the relationship between FrankC and Gracie progresses throughout this season and beyond...

  5. #20
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Ashley is the clear #1 and will remain there until Gracie can beat out Ashley...consistently. Ashley has consistently bested Gracie at every competition. Gracie hasn't beaten her once which is one of the reasons I find this question very odd. Gracie may outscore Ashley in one segment of the competition but overall Ashley comes out on top. Gracie has the potential to be amazing but potential counts for zero in this sport. Everyone knows she can do the jumps in her sleep but if she can't do them when the pressure is on, they count for nothing.

    Gracie is the more talented skater of the two (jumps, spins, speed) but Ashley is the superior competitor. She has the focus and mental toughness Gracie lacks. There's no guarantee Gracie will ever gain that mental toughness/focus. If/when she does she will probably be unstoppable...but as of now, Ashley's consistency and competitiveness trump Gracie's potential greatness.

    I do think Gracie has made improvements under Frank so far, particularly in her presentation. She's a little less stiff, the samurai sword arms have calmed down a little bit, and she did look more relaxed in the SP. However, she was right back to regular old nervous Gracie in the FS. Only two of her jumping passes were clean (3L and 2A-2T-2T); every other jump was tight b/c she was nervous. The program slowly unraveled but she managed to barely hang on and not completely fall to pieces. I do think she kept the program up better (didn't go 100% blank in the face) which is good but overall, that was not a good performance by the standards she is being held to. That said she still scored very well and landed on the podium but this was a missed opportunity for Gracie.

    Julia is a good example of a great competitor. She has that killer instinct needed to be a champion...she's always had it. Gracie doesn't have that killer instinct. We'll have to see if Frank can develop that for her. NHK will be very interesting...

  6. #21
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    1 Gracie Gold - superior skater, hollywood like beauty
    big jumps, difficult 3-3's, amazing speed, more artistic than Wagner

    2 Ashley Wagner -
    two footed 3-3's, flutzer, ok speed and skating skills but
    she is old and is worn out

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I do think Gracie has made improvements under Frank so far, particularly in her presentation. She's a little less stiff, the samurai sword arms have calmed down a little bit, and she did look more relaxed in the SP. However, she was right back to regular old nervous Gracie in the FS. Only two of her jumping passes were clean (3L and 2A-2T-2T); every other jump was tight b/c she was nervous. The program slowly unraveled but she managed to barely hang on and not completely fall to pieces. I do think she kept the program up better (didn't go 100% blank in the face) which is good but overall, that was not a good performance by the standards she is being held to. That said she still scored very well and landed on the podium but this was a missed opportunity for Gracie.
    Maybe it's because I didn't watch it in real-time (I watched it the day after), but I don't agree that the mistakes she made in the middle of the program were wholly due to nerves. To me the errors in the middle she made were a lack of focus. She did not look especially tense after she made those mistakes and got up pretty quickly after making them.

    Lack of focus isn't good either, but the errors she made seem like ones you make when you're not 100 percent focused. I do think she was nervous at the beginning, hence the relative tightness of her 3Z-3T and the 2A error, but I though she looked a lot more relaxed as the program went on.

    You're right that it was not a good performance as far as what she is capable of doing, but I think she looked pretty calm when she was done and in the Kiss and Cry she didn't look all that dejected about getting bronze (neither was Frank).

  8. #23
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    right now Ashley is no. 1 She has the experience. She has the name. She has the consistency. She has the world ranking. She has the confidence. but ice is slippery and the season is long. Who knows.

  9. #24
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Maybe it's because I didn't watch it in real-time (I watched it the day after), but I don't agree that the mistakes she made in the middle of the program were wholly due to nerves. To me the errors in the middle she made were a lack of focus. She did not look especially tense after she made those mistakes and got up pretty quickly after making them.

    Lack of focus isn't good either, but the errors she made seem like ones you make when you're not 100 percent focused. I do think she was nervous at the beginning, hence the relative tightness of her 3Z-3T and the 2A error, but I though she looked a lot more relaxed as the program went on.

    You're right that it was not a good performance as far as what she is capable of doing, but I think she looked pretty calm when she was done and in the Kiss and Cry she didn't look all that dejected about getting bronze (neither was Frank).
    Lack of focus is usually a result of nerves IMO. You're nervous so you start thinking about other things and instead of focusing on what you need to do. Gracie was tight pretty much the entire time. She got tighter and more nervous as the program went on: the tilted abrupt landing on the flip, followed by a fall on the lutz and the complete lost-in-the-air miss on the 3S...I think she was lucky the program ended when it did.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Lack of focus is usually a result of nerves IMO. You're nervous so you start thinking about other things and instead of focusing on what you need to do. Gracie was tight pretty much the entire time. She got tighter and more nervous as the program went on: the tilted abrupt landing on the flip, followed by a fall on the lutz and the complete lost-in-the-air miss on the 3S...I think she was lucky the program ended when it did.
    Well I think in any case, I don't think it was a complete meltdown. That was SLC. This was not a great performance, but it wasn't terrible either. 117+ is not a bad score considering the mistakes.

  11. #26
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well I think in any case, I don't think it was a complete meltdown. That was SLC. This was not a great performance, but it wasn't terrible either. 117+ is not a bad score considering the mistakes.
    I agree. She kept fighting even though the jumps were getting away from her. I do think she did a better job of not completely zoning out and going dead in the face despite the fact the program was going downhill. She's definitely made improvements in terms of her performance and presentation (hallelujah!). Plus, even though the jumps were tight and a bit wonky, she rotated everything, though IMO I did think a few of those looked UR. I don't know if she did rotate everything or if the callers were just being nice.

    She has improved but she still has a lot of work to do especially in terms of competing. Gracie has to learn to compete under pressure. It's easier said than done but if she can only skate well when coming from behind when there's less pressure to perform, she's never going to win gold.

  12. #27
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    I can understand how people believe Gracie has the potential to overtake Ashley but that has not happened. For now, our two-time USA champion is clearly the top USA lady. Anyway, it's exciting to have them both on the scene. I am just as excited to see that Ashley is still at the top of her game as I am to see Gracie moving up and able to make the top ladies look over their shoulders.

  13. #28
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    Why is there any dispute, right now? And I think clean skates by Ashley beat clean skates by Gracie, so Ashley can control her own destiny.

  14. #29
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    Ashley is # 1. Gracie needs a lot of improvement in presentation. If both skate clean with their current programs, Ashley will win. Gracie's short program this season is crap. The long program is effective in some areas. Even if you don't like Ashley's programs this season, she is committed to the choreography, and Gracie still throws a lot of the moves away. Gracie has the potential to be#1.

  15. #30
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    ...but Ashley is the superior competitor. She has the focus and mental toughness Gracie lacks. There's no guarantee Gracie will ever gain that mental toughness/focus. If/when she does she will probably be unstoppable...but as of now, Ashley's consistency and competitiveness trump Gracie's potential greatness.
    Just remember, that until 2 years ago, Ashley was the one with competitor's nerves/issues and didn't make a world team until she realized how much she wanted it and how she had to get there. She had a meh fall under Nicks that first year but was gangbusters at Nationals and deservedly and convincingly won that title. While Gracie's a little younger, she's following that blueprint - taking control of her own skating, choosing her own coach, etc and they are just getting their team work together.

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