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Thread: Asada: 2010 v.s. 2013/14 Personal Growth Going to Sochi

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    Asada: 2010 v.s. 2013/14 Personal Growth Going to Sochi

    I personally believe that there's far too much unwarranted hate on Mao Asada this season. I also think that there has been a resounding agreement that her personal growth as a skater from Vancouver to now has been inspiring, impressive and promising. So, to cancel out the negative juju that some posters have decided to put out into the universe, I am starting to thread to talk about how far Mao has come since winning silver in 2010.

    To prevent things from going sour- because it's bound to and you know people will pounce, I'm banning the following points:
    - her jumps
    - Yu Na Kim
    - ISU 'politicking' (the magical unicorn in this forum)

    This thread is to talk about the extent of growth in her artistry, speed, performance, her insistence in 'going for it, all the way' and the positive attitude she has been exuding the past couple of seasons. Asada has dealt with SO MUCH since Vancouver (losing her jumps, losing her mother, coming back from skating 101), and I think it would be nice to acknowledge that this figure skater has come back refreshed and stronger than ever.

    Obviously, we can't prevent any nyasayers from bombing this thread with mud and slander, but if you can ignore them- move past the bloody mofos

    So, how do you think Asada has grown from 2010?

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    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    Good thread. She is faster, her artistry has grown

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    Mashimaro on Ice
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    She's a better skater and she's in much better shape than she was pre-Vancouver. As for negative criticism, I don't think you need to worry much. They will always exist no matter what she does on the ice.

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    Well I think her artistry has grown a bit. She def has stronger footwork (prob the best among current ladies), good spins and position (thou she lost some flexibility due to her age). I never seen her skate live so can't how fast she is now, but she still looks slow on T.V thou. Maybe because of her softer stroking on ice. Her skating style is very classical so we haven't seen any master drama piece from her yet and Bell of Moscow probably come the closet. I love one of her Tango exhibition program and not sure why her team never make it into actual program.

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    I think a balanced discussion on her growth that doesn't include her jumping is not possible. Her jumps reflect her overall confidence level in her skating. I am glad she is attempting a level of content that could challenge the top competitors, and I think her SP is great. Her LP needs to be skated with more fire, and I know she can do it because she presented her 2010 programs with great intensity.

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    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Lovin' this thread!

    Well, her spins were the first things that improved. They temporarily became slow last season due to her hip pain returning, but since the beginning this season, where she is reportedly no longer experiencing hip pains, they are much faster and well-centered and there's now acceleration to boot so I think her spins are really one of the best in the business.

    Her skating skills have vastly improved, and I guess they will continue to do so, as Mr. Sato spoke in a post-NHK interview about how they will increase her speed further. Her improvement is not only the speed. She now changes directions by digging her edges into the ice so that each movement is crisp and clear. I was comparing the ice marks of her Vancouver steps to Rach steps and there was a huge difference.

    Physically, she is much stronger. Her core is probably one of the strongest in the ladies' field now. And they have recently started adding more muscles to her legs and so I think maybe her under-rotation issue is/will be less problematic. (Incidentally, I think Kanako might have done similar training with her legs.) It may even be that they are still adding a bit more muscle to Mao now and with that comes adjusting jump timing, but all of that should hopefully be resolved well in time for Sochi.

    Besides that, I am not sure what artistry means TBH. Does having artistry mean looking pretty on the ice and being able to emote? If so, then I don't think her level of artistry has changed at all. It's just that Mao is now more confident and that may translate as having better expression on the ice or emoting more. Mao was always a very beautiful skater, with beautiful positions and a naturally-gifted glide.

    I think having Mr. Sato was the best thing that could have happened to Mao. She had a language barrier with her previous coaches to begin with, and I really wonder to what extent Yamada Machiko ever taught her proper technique, whether skating or jumping. So Mr. Sato was probably the first coach she had who knew the proper technique and could communicate the mechanics to her.

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    Fine. I think her press and her uber are certainly more deluded than usual. Such as to create this thread and to decide what the public are and are not allowed to discuss, as if they trying to strongwill the public into bowing to the hype, hide her flaws and to actually demand respect instead of allowing her to earning them through her performance alone. How is this any different than propaganda and delusion of grandeur?

    To ban any discussion on jumps which is certainly an integral part of the sport and Mao's greatest weaknesses despite the hoopla of going for the none existent 8 triples, having never succeed even 7, not even 6, and barely even 5 since Vancouver almost 4 years ago. It is hard not to call her 4 triples Mao, or 2f 3A Mao when it has been her winning formula these past few competitions. The fact Mao Asada of Japan continues to get generous calls relative to other competitive skaters like Mirai, that somehow 2 footed landing get her the full basevalue shows how broken the COP system really is and how false it reflect the actual quality which the system is suppose to measure. The best performance should be capable of winning under any system and any judgement panel. Name one of her performances last 3 years that is worthy to beat her Vancouver performances? Even when she continue to get the biggest benefit of doubt at home event in Japan, will these performances stand up in history when eventually the system will fix itself.

    Mao is undoubtly the biggest benefactor of all the change in all rules after the Olympics. Not just with regards to value of 3A, 3A in SP, reduction of GOE except the 3A, and the downgrades rule where of 1/4th UR means it is no longer a a downgrade unlike before. It means the lady without a proper 3lutz can have the benefit of similar score through an UR 3A. So 2x UR 3A practically equals 2x lutz despite being faulty jumps. What is the risk in that other than through loss of GOEs? The benefits far out weigh the risks. All means the lady with the biggest problem with UR will not be penalised as much as before. As much as she seems like a lovely person or skater with a well liked and respected federation. This makes the sport hopelessly lob sided to to favour one skater. It says alot about the sport, ISU and her federation that poorer performances of 4 triples being propped up at home can now outscores her own historical skate at Olympic/WC level Vancouver 4 years ago - even without a proper 3A.

    As for her artistry, speed, performance I find it to be of poorer quality than Vancouver, and her insistence of 'going for it' is actually one of desperation rather than of choice. Going for 8 and mostly succeed in 4 in my opinion does not send the right message for the sport, to the next generation of skaters, or approach in life. This is not hate talking, it is good deal of common sense and just being honest with what actually occurred. I know I am not the only one think that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    I personally believe that there's far too much unwarranted hate on Mao Asada this season. I also think that there has been a resounding agreement that her personal growth as a skater from Vancouver to now has been inspiring, impressive and promising. So, to cancel out the negative juju that some posters have decided to put out into the universe, I am starting to thread to talk about how far Mao has come since winning silver in 2010.

    To prevent things from going sour- because it's bound to and you know people will pounce, I'm banning the following points:
    - her jumps
    - Yu Na Kim
    - ISU 'politicking' (the magical unicorn in this forum)

    This thread is to talk about the extent of growth in her artistry, speed, performance, her insistence in 'going for it, all the way' and the positive attitude she has been exuding the past couple of seasons. Asada has dealt with SO MUCH since Vancouver (losing her jumps, losing her mother, coming back from skating 101), and I think it would be nice to acknowledge that this figure skater has come back refreshed and stronger than ever.

    Obviously, we can't prevent any nyasayers from bombing this thread with mud and slander, but if you can ignore them- move past the bloody mofos

    So, how do you think Asada has grown from 2010?
    Why don't you just go to the Mao Asada fan forum?

    ?

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    Custom Title EricRohmer's Avatar
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    Real (big) improvement does not need 'persuasions' by GP overscoring, this kind of threads etc.
    People all knew naturally Caro's this-quad improvement, just seeing her performances.
    Sorry.

  11. #11
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    This season her landings are the worst ever from her, for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Fine. I think her press and her uber are certainly more deluded than usual. Such as to create this thread and to decide what the public are and are not allowed to discuss, as if they trying to strongwill the public into bowing to the hype, hide her flaws and to actually demand respect instead of allowing her to earning them through her performance alone. How is this any different than propaganda and delusion of grandeur?

    To ban any discussion on jumps which is certainly an integral part of the sport and Mao's greatest weaknesses despite the hoopla of going for the none existent 8 triples, having never succeed even 7, not even 6, and barely even 5 since Vancouver almost 4 years ago. It is hard not to call her 4 triples Mao, or 2f 3A Mao when it has been her winning formula these past few competitions. The fact Mao Asada of Japan continues to get generous calls relative to other competitive skaters like Mirai, that somehow 2 footed landing get her the full basevalue shows how broken the COP system really is and how false it reflect the actual quality which the system is suppose to measure. The best performance should be capable of winning under any system and any judgement panel. Name one of her performances last 3 years that is worthy to beat her Vancouver performances? Even when she continue to get the biggest benefit of doubt at home event in Japan, will these performances stand up in history when eventually the system will fix itself.

    Mao is undoubtly the biggest benefactor of all the change in all rules after the Olympics. Not just with regards to value of 3A, 3A in SP, reduction of GOE except the 3A, and the downgrades rule where of 1/4th UR means it is no longer a a downgrade unlike before. It means the lady without a proper 3lutz can have the benefit of similar score through an UR 3A. So 2x UR 3A practically equals 2x lutz despite being faulty jumps. What is the risk in that other than through loss of GOEs? The benefits far out weigh the risks. All means the lady with the biggest problem with UR will not be penalised as much as before. As much as she seems like a lovely person or skater with a well liked and respected federation. This makes the sport hopelessly lob sided to to favour one skater. It says alot about the sport, ISU and her federation that poorer performances of 4 triples being propped up at home can now outscores her own historical skate at Olympic/WC level Vancouver 4 years ago - even without a proper 3A.

    As for her artistry, speed, performance I find it to be of poorer quality than Vancouver, and her insistence of 'going for it' is actually one of desperation rather than of choice. Going for 8 and mostly succeed in 4 in my opinion does not send the right message for the sport, to the next generation of skaters, or approach in life. This is not hate talking, it is good deal of common sense and just being honest with what actually occurred. I know I am not the only one think that way.
    Why do you keep on insisting Mao as the only skater who benefits from the rules and presents as if it were facts? If you really believe so, I would like to see stats to back this claim up. Also stats to back the claim that she has the biggest problem with UR. Or to compare her results from before to show she benefited less from UR calls. Otherwise, it just seems like you are singling out a skater to take the blame for the faults of a system. And you can't be serious to say her speed is worse than Vancouver. The difference in speed and ice coverage between Vancouver and now are obvious even on video streams. As for going for 8 triples, I remembered last season when she went for easier triples, there was criticism against her lowering her content. Now that she is going for harder content, she is criticized for not succeeding. I'm all for constructive criticism but excessive negativity toward a skater is not much different from delusional overpraise of a skater.

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    The response to this thread by the usual suspects is so predictable--yes, I'm talking about you, os168, Moment, EricRohmer, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricRohmer View Post
    Real (big) improvement does not need 'persuasions' by GP overscoring, this kind of threads etc.
    People all knew naturally Caro's this-quad improvement, just seeing her performances.
    Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    This season her landings are the worst ever from her, for sure.
    Short memory?

    2010
    Japan Open
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYY4w2bOD0
    NHK Trophy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLkvYk0gXs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGDuOBioXyU
    Edit: apparently the LP is blocked by "SBS" - odd. Why would Yu-na's Korean contingent be averse to allowing Mao's most disastrous skate on YouTube?
    TEB
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHenac6U34k

    2011
    Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU_SHXAxyik
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3hnFF51ZY

  15. #15
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    She has improved in spins, footwork, speed, she is fast but besides she get speed without too much effort, not aparent, some skaters are fast but to get the speed you can easly watch the effort, and finally the timing with the music is really good lately.

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