How are Agnes Chances-she seems forgotten

kwanatic · Nov 1, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
I was thinking the same thing, that the last few years at Nationals I've noticed how tall she is.

Yeah, I honestly don't think it's her height/weight especially when you look at her nationals results over the past two years. It's not her technique or her height...

Mentally, she's not a good competitor. There are a lot of skaters who have amazing skills (jumps, spins, etc.) and yet never reach their potential b/c they can't handle the pressure.

tulosai · Nov 1, 2013

Agnes kills me, and the USFSA as regards her kills me too.

Yes, she has potential, yes. Yes, she's a decent preformer and has monster jumps when she manages to land them (never in competition! hint hint USFSA- NEVER IN COMPETITION!).

However, she can't get it together. She's had countless chances over 3 or 4 seasons now. She has NEVER skated anything remotely resembling a clean LP in international (or, actually, national) competition. And I don't mean oh, one fall or one mistake in a LP- she has never skated anything remotely resembling a clean LP. 106 remains her highest international FS score if I'm not mistaken. That is a BAD score. It currently represents her MAXIMUM potential. It is utterly bizarre that the USFSA keeps giving her such inflated scores on home soil when pretty much every other American ladies skater who is considered a contender by USFSA- and some who are not seemingly considered contenders- have both the potential and in fact the near certainty of outscoring her internationally.

It is time for her to be dumped by the fed, as so many better skaters have been dumped before her. I know I sound a little crazy, but this has all just gone on for too long. I'm not suggesting she should never be allowed to compete again, or that, if she ever gets it together, she should not be rewarded. If she ever gets it together, wonderful. But until then, she doesn't deserve to be treated as a contender for the 3rd Oly spot, especially if she skates flawed programs at Nationals, which she will (only to get ridiculously inflated score that she would never be able to replicate at the Olys or anywhere). I'm sorry but this is the truth.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 1, 2013

tulosai said:
Agnes kills me, and the USFSA as regards her kills me too.

Yes, she has potential, yes. Yes, she's a decent preformer and has monster jumps when she manages to land them (never in competition! hint hint USFSA- NEVER IN COMPETITION!).

However, she can't get it together. She's had countless chances over 3 or 4 seasons now. She has NEVER skated anything remotely resembling a clean LP in international (or, actually, national) competition. And I don't mean oh, one fall or one mistake in a LP- she has never skated anything remotely resembling a clean LP. 106 remains her highest international FS score if I'm not mistaken. That is a BAD score. It currently represents her MAXIMUM potential. It is utterly bizarre that the USFSA keeps giving her such inflated scores on home soil when pretty much every other American ladies skater who is considered a contender by USFSA- and some who are not seemingly considered contenders- have both the potential and in fact the near certainty of outscoring her internationally.

It is time for her to be dumped by the fed, as so many better skaters have been dumped before her. I know I sound a little crazy, but this has all just gone on for too long. I'm not suggesting she should never be allowed to compete again, or that, if she ever gets it together, she should not be rewarded. If she ever gets it together, wonderful. But until then, she doesn't deserve to be treated as a contender for the 3rd Oly spot, especially if she skates flawed programs at Nationals, which she will (only to get ridiculously inflated score that she would never be able to replicate at the Olys or anywhere). I'm sorry but this is the truth.

Harsh but essentially true. I think this GP season was Agnes' last chance to really make a statement that she's finally pulled it all together--and so far it isn't going well. With US talent depth and skaters like Wang, Miller, Edmunds, Cesario added to the usual suspects of Wagner, Gold, Gao and maybe Nagasu, I think Agnes' time is nearly up and it will become painfully obvious at US Nationals.

I can't help but think that one reason for her seemingly bulletproof backing by the USFS all this time has been that Colorado Springs is her training location, so she's right there and maybe has a bit of politicking going on, year round.

Mrs. P · Nov 1, 2013

bigsisjiejie said:
I can't help but think that one reason for her seemingly bulletproof backing by the USFS all this time has been that Colorado Springs is her training location, so she's right there and maybe has a bit of politicking going on, year round.

I might agree with that before Agnes went back to Tom Z, she was coached by Krall for much of that time and she also coaches Angela Wang and Joshua Farris. Yes, they skate junior internationally, but they get no favors when they skate senior at the national level.

flying camel · Nov 1, 2013

Can she be stripped of her next GP event? Can they give her spot to someone else?

Icey · Nov 1, 2013

Her chances are near 0.

Ziggy · Nov 1, 2013

What Tulosai said. When you always bomb in competition, while representing a country where the level is generally very high, you have no place being sent to international competitions, I am sorry.

To be fair to USFS though, Zawadzki's GP assigments are based on her previous results/world ranking. She was selected by the ISU and not USFS.

Of course if USFS would give their up-and-coming skaters a chance to 'enter the system' selecting them as host picks instead of Flatt last year and Zhang this year, then they could take over from skaters like Zawadzki. Oh well.

LiamForeman · Nov 1, 2013

Ziggy said:
What Tulosai said. When you always bomb in competition, while representing a country where the level is generally very high, you have no place being sent to international competitions, I am sorry.

To be fair to USFS though, Zawadzki's GP assigments are based on her previous results/world ranking. She was selected by the ISU and not USFS.

Of course if USFS would give their up-and-coming skaters a chance to 'enter the system' selecting them as host picks instead of Flatt last year and Zhang this year, then they could take over from skaters like Zawadzki. Oh well.

I agree to an extent. However, it is not as if the US has this ongoing supply of fabulous competitors that Agnes is holding back. I didn't understand Zhang at SA, at all, and thought Hicks should have gotten the spot. But Gao has been disappointing this season so far, Gracie is doing okay, both falling. Agnes is an exciting skater when she's on, and has a great skill set. Her jumps are the best in the business, I think even better than Gracie's. Let's see how she does in the LP, she could pull up to a medal. Many of the competitors ahead of her are UR's. You never know what will happen, though the past is a pretty good indicator.

tulosai · Nov 2, 2013

Ziggy said:
What Tulosai said. When you always bomb in competition, while representing a country where the level is generally very high, you have no place being sent to international competitions, I am sorry.

To be fair to USFS though, Zawadzki's GP assigments are based on her previous results/world ranking. She was selected by the ISU and not USFS.

Of course if USFS would give their up-and-coming skaters a chance to 'enter the system' selecting them as host picks instead of Flatt last year and Zhang this year, then they could take over from skaters like Zawadzki. Oh well.

Yes to absolutely clarify, Agnes earned her GP spots fair and square. I'm not suggesting she not be allowed to compete and to improve if she can. I'm merely suggesting that the USA should stop inflating her scores at nationals and pushing her internationally/politiking for her. IIRC, Nagasu, for example, one of the big URers, has a lowest ever international LP score that is pretty much the same as Agnes's highest one. Now of course I am a big and unabashed fan of Nagasu but I don't mean by this that USA should start pushing Nagasu. I'm merely saying that logic dictates that if they have dumped someone preforming at Nagasu's level, they should surely dump someone preforming at Agnes's level, as it is objectively lower than Nagasu's. They evidently feel Agnes has more potential than Nagasu, but even if true who cares? She has had just as long as Nagasu to pull herself together. Like Nagasu, she has failed, and without the fun career highlights like 4th at Olys along the way.

Again I know I'm being very blunt here but I am not meaning to bash anyone and am not an Agnes hater, I am just honestly calling it like I see it. If Agnes can improve and turn things around, I will be happy for her, just as I would for Nagasu (if slightly less totally off the wall giddy

).

As another issue, Agnes does not get high PCS internationally and never has, quite separate from her inability to land jumps. Does USFSA think she is going to miraculously start getting them? This whole love affair between them is bizarre to say the least.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 2, 2013

tulosai said:
.....I'm merely suggesting that the USA should stop inflating her scores at nationals and pushing her internationally/politiking for her.
.....

As another issue, Agnes does not get high PCS internationally and never has, quite separate from her inability to land jumps. Does USFSA think she is going to miraculously start getting them? This whole love affair between them is bizarre to say the least.

This and this.
Dear USFS: Please tech call and judge what really happens on the ice at Nationals and stop giving brownie points to your pet skaters.
Dear Other Skaters: Please skate really really incontrovertably better than Agnes so there is no lingering doubt.

louisa05 · Nov 2, 2013

bigsisjiejie said:
This and this.
Dear USFS: Please tech call and judge what really happens on the ice at Nationals and stop giving brownie points to your pet skaters.
Dear Other Skaters: Please skate really really incontrovertably better than Agnes so there is no lingering doubt.

I could not agree more with the second. At this point, Gao and Hicks have way higher international scores than Agnes and should get the edge at Nats. Here's hoping they make it really hard for the judges to score it otherwise.

noskates · Nov 2, 2013

The title of the thread "seems to be forgotten" struck me as funny. She hasn't done anything to be remembered by! I don't know whether it's choreography, her largish legs, or what, but I don't find Agnes' skating to be very pleasing. Yes she has big jumps but so do alot of women today. I don't even know if changing coaches is going to help her. As someone said upthread, she just isn't a very good competitor. It's one thing to have alot of potential at the practice rink but that doesn't mean anything if you can't lay it down during competition. It's sad when you see someone like Agnes interviewed and there's so much hope and so much wishing on her part that just doesn't seem to come to fruition.

louisa05 · Nov 2, 2013

noskates said:
The title of the thread "seems to be forgotten" struck me as funny. She hasn't done anything to be remembered by! I don't know whether it's choreography, her largish legs, or what, but I don't find Agnes' skating to be very pleasing. Yes she has big jumps but so do alot of women today. I don't even know if changing coaches is going to help her. As someone said upthread, she just isn't a very good competitor. It's one thing to have alot of potential at the practice rink but that doesn't mean anything if you can't lay it down during competition. It's sad when you see someone like Agnes interviewed and there's so much hope and so much wishing on her part that just doesn't seem to come to fruition.

I think it is the big jumps that has USFSA favoring her and pushing her into that third place spot the last couple of years. So many times at Worlds the lack of power in jumps has contributed to not getting that third spot, so pushing a woman with high, big jumps seems like a solution. If she had stayed on two feet two years ago, they would have sent her to Worlds in spite of her inconsistency. Hopefully, this year when there is a third spot, they will realize that those jumps don't matter if she isn't doing them well in front of the international judges and that some other skaters are going to get higher scores in the second mark regardless.

hurrah · Nov 2, 2013

Agnes has really huge thighs. Maybe her core strength can't manage her thigh strength.
If she could lose some of her thigh muscle and strengthen her core, I bet she would be able to land her jumps more.

kikakiks · Nov 2, 2013

I personally find that she is just forgettable, and the internationsl judges seem to hold the same opinion. Even if she were to skate clean there would be other skaters with more personality ahead of her...

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 2, 2013

To me, her programs and outfits are better than they have been in previous years. However, she won't get the marks internationally unless she is clean, like every other second tier skater. US judges mark her PCS for her error-prone programs like she is Caro or Mao (i.e. she gets great PCS whether or not she is clean).

b-man · Nov 2, 2013

Agnes at the weak CoC, 7th in sp, 8th in FS, 93 points in FS, 147 total. One fall. Five attempted triples, 2 totally clean per protocols. Fifty one PCS in FS. In this weak field that was a splatfest, a halfway decent skate would have stood out, yet Agnes finishes 7th overall. Wait untill Rostelecom where she will have some real competition: Osmond, Kostner, Murakami, Julia, Tuk, Nagasu.

Selene · Nov 2, 2013

She doesn't deserve the marks she gets at Nationals. The judges hold her up, seemingly because of her potential, but at some point, potential means nothing and a skater has to deliver.

And Agnes hardly ever delivers internationally. All four of her skates this season have been a mess. Plus, the international judges don't like her. I thought her and Gracie's long programs at SLC were at the same level of hot mess, but Gracie scored 10 points higher for her program. At this point, Agnes' PCS internationally is awful and she isn't even breaking 100 points for her long programs.

I hope Christina or Courtney get the third spot at the Olympics over Agnes. If Agnes is being held up at Nationals because of her big jumps, Courtney has big jumps, too. And she actually lands them in competition, unlike Agnes.

Jammers · Nov 2, 2013

Hicks is so awkward in her skating other then her jumps. Agnes is probably a better all around skater but if you can't skate clean it doesn't matter.

Ziggy · Nov 2, 2013

She could always decide to represent Poland.

Given her roots, she could probably obtain citizenship very quickly and she'd have a guaranteed ticket to all European and World Championships.

How are Agnes Chances-she seems forgotten

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