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Thread: Least Talented/Worthy Olympic Champion(s) ever?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Trixie Schuba was absolutely the best ever in a sport (figure skating) that no longer exists on the competitive scene. She is no more undeserving than Gillis Grafstrom, who also excelled in that sport, and won 3 Olympics.

    Anyone who thinks figures is not skating has never done figures. It's all about deep, correct edging and turns-something a lot of our current skaters could use more of, IMO.

    No one who is the all time best at anything is undeserving, IMO. Outdated, maybe, but deserving.


    I'm OK with dissing Wolfgang Schwarz though...who wouldn't be.

    And I agree that the first Olympic win of G&P, (who were great, deserving, skaters and deserved their OGM win in 1998); their 1994 win was undeserved because they also had illegal moves, and they weren't penalized for them, while T&D were-I'd have docked both T&D and G&P for illegal moves, and given the gold medal to U&Z.

    If you want to fault Sara Hughes for 2002, you should also fault Tara for 1998- if she skated today, her flutzing, UR's and most of all, the impossibility today of getting credit for a 3Lo3Lo combo would have sunk her in the standings. But I don't think either of them are undeserving, so I won't vote for either. They didn't skate under modern rules.

    A case can be made for Oksana Baiul, because in her era you were not supposed to get credit for 2 footed jumps, and she had plenty of them, and appeared to receive credit. Also you were supposed to have a combination. Nancy should have won, as much as I have always found her a boring skater.

    In pairs, the 2nd win of G&G in 1994 was probably the pairs win that I find most troubling-I would have given it to Mishketunok & Dmitriev. G&G just made too many mistakes and had lesser difficulty. They won the second medal on reputation. Their first win in 1988 was utterly sublime, though. They were, like G&P, deserving skaters, they just didn't deserve one of their 2 OGMs.
    I am not sure oksana had that many two footed landings as suggested and she did do a combo albeit last second.

  2. #47
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    Ah this thread is getting nasty. I have to say we need to step back and realize to get OGM isn't easy and we all h ave our favorites. I heard the words vile used in this thread and I have no idea how one could even use it in this context even with great creativity. /the only thing vile is some of our words and attitudes. Certainly we all have opinions and very strong ones at that it would appear. If you don't like the view change the channel so to speak. It seems what "lens" you use will decide a lot. An argument could even be made that Yamaguchi didnt deserve it she had no salchow and wasn't clean at all, Arakawa 5 triples and not much flair some might say.

  3. #48
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    My vote goes for Sarah. Her OGM is a perfect example of all of the stars aligning and a miracle occurring. I think she had the skate of her life at the best possible time in her life and she reaped the rewards. Point is she wasn't in Michelle or Irina's league. At best, Sarah was expected to place 3rd or 4th. Everything had to fall in line for her to win gold and just so happens it did. She's fortunate to be a part of the elite OGM winners but she will never be considered a legend or influential figure in this sport...

  4. #49
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    This is an easy call: Tara Lipinski.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    Sarah Hughes for ladies. Evan Lysacek for men. S/P for pairs and Navka/Kostomarov for dance.

    The entire whining by S/P was just riddiculous. Had they let it be and taken that silver home, they would've been much better remembered than they actually are IMO.
    Sarah Hughes was by no means better than Slustkaya or Kwan and yet one stupid competition gave her the right to be among world's best skaters
    Lysacek will go down in history as the champion without a quad. Not a very good thing to be remembered for.
    And finally N/K. they were so mediocre and frankly, nobody even remembers them any more, nobody talks about them. they were simply so-so and yet beat many much better and more talented teams in Torino (both D/S, D/V, B/A).


    No No NO and No. Your wrong.

  6. #51
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    Least Talented and Least Worthy are two different titles.

    I think if you came to the competition, stood up while your competitors (better or worse) failed to deliver, you are worthy of that title at that moment.
    Least talented, well, where do you begin? A lot of them are not that good compare to their competitors, they just happened to be clean on that one day.

  7. #52
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I think I'm more inclined to vote on least likely (not least talented) Olympic medalists, than least talented Olympic gold medalists. It takes A LOT of talent, even if you're Trixi Schuba, to get to the top of that podium.

    So, my vote for least likely Olympic medalists are the silver and bronze medalists of the 2002 Olympic Ice Dance competition.

  8. #53
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Grischuk/Platov's second gold was also well-deserved.
    The dance event at 1998 Olympics is extremely interesting to talk about and analyze and re-watch. The teams all had different strengths and styles throughout the competition. Call me crazy, but I actually think Punsalan/Swallow should have won the Gold! Here's my breakdown of how I would have scored it all:

    1st Compulsory Dance - Golden Waltz (worth 10% of final score)

    1. Anissina/Peizerat - they totally commanded this
    2. Krylova/Ovsyannikov
    3. Punsalan/Swallow - surprisingly great
    4. Lobacheva/Averbukh
    5. Grishuk/Platov - seems a bit sloppy throughout to me, plus a clear mistake
    6. Bourne/Kraatz -a couple wrong steps, general lack of snap in the dance

    2nd Compulsory Dance - Argentine Tango (worth 10% of final score)

    1. Krylova/Ovsyannikov
    2. Grishuk/Platov - much better than the first dance, and they could probably do this better than anyone, but there is still a little sloppiness that keeps them below K/O for me
    3. Anissina/Peizerat - they got less steady with each segment of the competition; this was still good, but lacked the attack of their first dance
    4. Bourne/Kraatz
    5. Lobacheva/Averbukh
    6. Punsalan/Swallow - strange how "off" they were in this tango, when you look at how ON they were in their tango Free Dance

    Original Dance (worth 30% of final score)

    1. Krylova/Ovsyannikov - they totally delivered on a night when nobody else did
    2. Grishuk/Platov - would have deserved to go over K/O if they did it their best, but they didn't completely deliver it as they could!
    3. Punsalan/Swallow - very solid
    4. Anissina/Peizerat - a GREAT dance, but a couple mistakes
    5. Lobacheva/Averbuk - she is seriously below his level here and I don't think they truly understood the music, but it was essentially clean
    6. Bourne/Kraatz - too empty, messed up the end (I feel so bad for her LOL)

    Free Dance (worth 50% of final score)

    1. Punsalan/Swallow - Masterpiece. By far their best performance ever. They pushed way beyond what they had ever done before. Igor Shpilband's brilliance on display.
    2. Bourne/Kraatz - I can see the criticisms about lack of difficulty in their holds and closeness, but I think there was still a good amount of difficulty here and it's wonderful choreography and interpretation.
    3. Grishuk/Platov - I'm not in love with this choreography and some of it is disconnected from the music to me. I really don't think they performed this that brilliantly either. But it was relatively difficult and strong.
    4. Krylova/Ovsyannikov - Feels slight, both technically and artistically. They surely performed it very well, though.
    5. Anissina/Peizerat - I LOVE this dance. They were the best team of 1998 for me, if they skated their programs to potential. Unfortunately, they had numerous glitches in this dance at the Olympics.
    6. Drobiazko/Vanagas - Didn't talk about them yet because they aren't a top 6 factor for me in the other segments, but this was a good dance and deserved to place higher than what they got. They should have placed 7th overall (ahead of the Italians!)
    7. Lobacheva/Averbuk - totally forgettable

    Overall result:

    1. Punsalan/Swallow - factored placement of 2.3
    2. Krylova/Ovsyannikov - factored placement of 2.6
    3. Grishuk/Platov - factored placement of 2.8
    4. Bourne/Kraatz - factored placement of 3.8
    5. Anissina/Peizerat - factored placement of 4.1
    6. Lobacheva/Averbuk - factored placement of 5.8

  9. #54
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    I don't think P/S should have won but I think they could have been placed higher than they were. How much higher, I'm not sure, since I haven't watched the performances in a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I would contest your last sentence, actually. The level of skating in 1992 was actually higher than it was in almost everyone in 1998. Remember that Kristi had a triple-triple, and her jumps were bigger than Tara's. And Ito, of course, had a triple axel, which she managed to execute at the 1992 Olympics. So if those two ladies had shown up in 1998 at their 1992 peaks, they might have beaten both Michelle and Tara.
    Under 6.0, a fall or major mistake would place below a clean performance for equally artistic skaters. Even assuming Kristi's artistic level equaled Michelle (which I don't think it was, as Michelle had already gotten many 6.0's for her artistry from international judging panels), Kristi wasn't as clean as Michelle, who landed 7 triples. Michelle Nagano > Kristi Albertville.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Under 6.0, a fall or major mistake would place below a clean performance for equally artistic skaters. Even assuming Kristi's artistic level equaled Michelle (which I don't think it was, as Michelle had already gotten many 6.0's for her artistry from international judging panels), Kristi wasn't as clean as Michelle, who landed 7 triples. Michelle Nagano > Kristi Albertville.
    Well, good point. Thanks! Because of course I'd put Michelle ahead of anyone in my deepest wishes. (I put her ahead of Tara at Nagano, but alas, they didn't listen to me....) But the actual technical level of Kristi's skating skills (leaving out the fall) was about the same as the skating in 1998 in terms of jump content, and probably even 2002, for the most part, which was what I was thinking about when I made that statement. (I stand corrected for not taking Kristi's fall into consideration.) I was intending to refute the earlier poster's comment to the effect that one couldn't consider skating before 1994 in comparison with the skating later on. What I was getting at was that ladies' skating had evolved in 1992 to just about modern levels, especially in terms of Kristi and Midori. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

  12. #57
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    This seems like a thinly veiled bashing thread. The obvious answer is that if skaters won Olympic gold, they're all very talented. As far as being worthy, I would say Plushenko deserved to beat Lysacek (although, Lysacek maximized the rules and Plushenko left points on the table, so it's understandable why Lysacek won). I don't get the Hughes bashing... she had a decent SP, and in her FS, she was the only one who truly went for it - even with the URs. It would have been a bit of a downer if Kwan or Slutskaya won when their freeskates had visible errors and were tentatively skated.
    I have to agree. All of the medalists and competitors earned their spots on the team and podium.

    Plushenko left points on the ice. Evan squeezed every point out of his program. If you're gonna play, you gotta play to the rules. Neither of them are my favorite male skater or even in the top 10 of my favorite male skaters for various reasons, but I don't deny that they are both talented hard-working men who deserved the medals they've won.

    I was disappointed that Hughes won, but I never denied that she deserved it that night.... and the Olympics are currently just about what you do on those 2 nights - the rest of your competitive history should have no bearing. Otherwise, people would have an even bigger reason to claim that Figure Skating is not a sport. Even Shizuka wasn't favored to win gold - she had help when the other contenders splatted all over the place.

    No casual viewer understands why a very flawed long program = gold. I don't think any casual viewer wouldn't agree that Sarah's lp was not visibly flawed. I think many people question why Patrick Chan won his last 2 world gold's with so many falls. People wonder why Scott Hamilton won his gold Olympic medal when he had the weakest long program performance.

    Also, you can't compare skaters of pre-COP to post -COP. Comparing Hughes to YuNa is like comparing apples and oranges. The requirements and demands are different between the generations. To the extreme, it's like saying that Sonia Henjie couldn't win a gold medal now or is least deserving because she can't compete to today's standards.

  13. #58
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I loved Sarah's electricity. She deserved the win. Flutzing is what many women did and still do. CoP wasn't caused by Sarah's skate. I think it was her destiny. She was a coltish but effective skater, a world medalist. MK fell, no 3/3. Sarah did two. They were not hawkishly watching for edge calls or urs. Now they are obsessed and 7 triples is now 3. I think it is kind of too much. Who beside YuNa jumps perfectly? Her speed is what allows this.

    Somehow, the rules must change again as CoP is not conducive to beautiful skating. Chan pulls it off some days-other days not.

    Undeserved should mean wuz robbed. Nancy wuzrobbed. Oksana was an undeserving champion. Nancy was very athletic-beautiful but no ballerina. Still, I feel she deserved Gold and bronze. She was a great skater when on.

    Tara really has some wonderful pro skates. she truly developed in 3 years with SOI. She gets dinged for being a child winner. This is why I hope Gold doesn't go to Julia or Yelena cuz they look like 12 year olds. Gymnastics uses up babies, tosss them. FS does too.

    I want a woman to win Sochi. A veteran who has worked long and hard. Here's to Akiko. What a story that would be!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I want a woman to win Sochi. A veteran who has worked long and hard. Here's to Akiko. What a story that would be!
    What a story that would be! I hope that's not impossible. I hope that Suzuki doesn't despair before the Olympics begins already thinking that the top 3 and up-comers such as Lipinskaya and Gold have a better chance than her without ever even stepping on the ice.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Well, good point. Thanks! Because of course I'd put Michelle ahead of anyone in my deepest wishes. (I put her ahead of Tara at Nagano, but alas, they didn't listen to me....) But the actual technical level of Kristi's skating skills (leaving out the fall) was about the same as the skating in 1998 in terms of jump content, and probably even 2002, for the most part, which was what I was thinking about when I made that statement. (I stand corrected for not taking Kristi's fall into consideration.) I was intending to refute the earlier poster's comment to the effect that one couldn't consider skating before 1994 in comparison with the skating later on. What I was getting at was that ladies' skating had evolved in 1992 to just about modern levels, especially in terms of Kristi and Midori. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
    It is true that we really don't see anything today that the world's best weren't doing in 1992. With Kristi's or Midori's planned content in 1992, either one of them clean would beat Michelle or Tara at their very best on technical merit alone. I think Michelle is responsible for ushering in the era of needed to be almost perfect to win a big title, as I think Tara, Sarah, Shizuka, and Yuna combined for zero falls, two-foot landings, or pops over their combined eight Olympic performances, which is an astonishing feat.

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