The Battle for Bronze - Ice Dance | Golden Skate

The Battle for Bronze - Ice Dance

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
D&W and V&M have been locked for gold and silver for almost a quadrennial now... it's not news but still constantly debated.

Thus, the battle for bronze is more interesting to me. As of now, Cappellini & Lanotte, Bobrova & Soloviev, Weaver & Poje, Pechalat & Bourzat, Ilinykh & Katsalopov are the major contenders. The momentum favored B&S and C&L last season.

By Rostelcom Cup, we should know who more or less will be the Bronze medalists, as B&S will face W&P there. The finished product of B&S' LP hasn't yet been unveiled (not to my knowledge), but C&L and W&P already have unveiled theirs. W&P did incredibly well in Skate Canada, and their tango interpretation, under the masterful guidance of Krylova, was TDF. As Chris and Simon said, they still need to intensify and sharpen some of their moves, but it's one hell of a program, almost as good as their Je Suis Malade program. I found C&L's Barber of Seville program quite boring and safe. I liked the rough sketch of B&S' program. Zhulin might add some more sultriness throughout the season; they look physically strong. I don't know what P&B and I&K are doing ATM. Out of the bunch, W&P seem to have the edge as of now. I think their tango was only a few points behind V&M.

W&P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfIBk1f8TL8

B&S http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fELRKt-_GHo

C&L http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPMEVoMBU0k

So who are your favorites? Any new videos of the contenders?
 

trains

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
I agree I think W/P have the edge right now and some momentum maybe. They actually beat V/M on the technical mark in both the short dance and the free dance at Skate Canada.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I agree I think W/P have the edge right now and some momentum maybe. They actually beat V/M on the technical mark in both the short dance and the free dance at Skate Canada.

I agree with this too. C/L's short dance is great but their free dance is rather boring. I'd call I/K a dark horse at best since they've never won a world medal and their highest finish was 5th, with them being all the way down in 9th last year. Plus, they're considered the second-string team from Russia, or at least they were last year. I'm not sure if I'd consider them any more likely to win a medal than Chock and Bates or the Shibutanis. We haven't seen much of B/S and P/B yet so it's hard to say how much of a chance they really have.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Chock and Bates have amazed me they could be the dark horse for bronze. I think the Italians and Canada II as well as B and S are the main fighers. I really am disappointed in what I have recentlly seen of the French though the Italians Barbe or SEvill is no masterpiece either.
 

SimplyLex

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
I think the battle for bronze will be very exciting! I'm so glad we're blessed with so many great teams at the moment.

I would say B/S have the best shot, since they're Russia's #1. Unless they fall behind I/K at nationals...

But really, all these teams are so great we won't know anything until we actually KNOW. Just look at their results in 2012 vs 2013:

2012:
3. P/B
4. W/P
5. I/K
6. C/L
7. B/S

2013:
3. B/S
4. C/L
5. W/P
6. P/B
with I/K in 9th, also behind Chock/Bates and the Shibs

so if we look at 2013 Worlds only, we shouldn't even consider I/K candidates unless we also consider S/S and C/B as such. But really, things and results switch so much between these teams all the time it's really hard to judge. Any team could win. But, as I said, Russians will have that slight home advantage.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
It will be one of Weaver & Poje or Cappellini & Lanotte. I guarantee it. Pechelat & Bourzat are on the way down, and home ice wont be able to save Bobrova & Soloviev and their yuck programs this year. I think it is more likely going to be W&P than C&L but we will see. Whichever of W&P and C&L dont get the Oly bronze will be given the World bronze as a consolation prize, unless one of the retiring D&W or V&M dont go (quite possible) in which case both will probably medal there.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I agree with this too. C/L's short dance is great but their free dance is rather boring. I'd call I/K a dark horse at best since they've never won a world medal and their highest finish was 5th, with them being all the way down in 9th last year. Plus, they're considered the second-string team from Russia, or at least they were last year. I'm not sure if I'd consider them any more likely to win a medal than Chock and Bates or the Shibutanis.

I would consider I/K winning a medal in Sochi a huge long shot too, but they are by far more likely than the Shibutanis. The Shibutanis have the same chance as a team from Australia of winning the bronze in Sochi right now, as in exactly 0. They will be in a dogfight with Hubbel & Donohue to even make the Olympic team, and my gut right now is telling me they wont. Yes the Shibutanis beat I/K at Worlds but I/K had a very weak competition there while the Shibutanis had their best one and I/K still had much higher PCS. When I/K are at their best they beat C/L and nearly B/S at Europeans last year. The Shibutanis were just at their best at Skate America and were absolutely trounced by the Italians who they clearly arent competitive with at this point, and eked out 3rd place over H/B.

I agree I/K odds are only about equal with a team like Chock & Bates though.
 

HR4

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
I think for some reasons I/K will have have a shot. If they skate well, they will be the one to beat. their programs, though not being showed yet, but are highly appraised in Russian press, while B/S are kind of constantly under review/critic. If B/S are not second this week in China, I think they will have problems in the Russian Nationals, and the Rus Fed will do all for I/K to be competitive for the Bronze in Sochi.



I would consider I/K winning a medal in Sochi a huge long shot too, but they are by far more likely than the Shibutanis. The Shibutanis have the same chance as a team from Australia of winning the bronze in Sochi right now, as in exactly 0. They will be in a dogfight with Hubbel & Donohue to even make the Olympic team, and my gut right now is telling me they wont. Yes the Shibutanis beat I/K at Worlds but I/K had a very weak competition there while the Shibutanis had their best one and I/K still had much higher PCS. When I/K are at their best they beat C/L and nearly B/S at Europeans last year. The Shibutanis were just at their best at Skate America and were absolutely trounced by the Italians who they clearly arent competitive with at this point, and eked out 3rd place over H/B.

I agree I/K odds are only about equal with a team like Chock & Bates though.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I thought b and s redid their programs because of RSF????Its anyones medal at this point; it would be sad if the /shibutanis lose out to H and /D but their skating is not outstanding and Alex has had injuiry problem
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Well, if the "Bronze medal misfortune" keeps working ;) after S/S and P/B it's B/S's time to lose their third place to someone else... As you said, probably W/P
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I think for some reasons I/K will have have a shot. If they skate well, they will be the one to beat. their programs, though not being showed yet, but are highly appraised in Russian press, while B/S are kind of constantly under review/critic. If B/S are not second this week in China, I think they will have problems in the Russian Nationals, and the Rus Fed will do all for I/K to be competitive for the Bronze in Sochi.

I posted about this with regard to B/S and it goes for I/K or any Russian dance team. Russia will be mainly focused on gold in team and pairs and I really doubt anyone is interested in bronze in ice dance. That's losing and based on the precedent in 2010 silver and bronze don't count for anything to the sports federations or press when it comes to judging success.

Mainly it's obvious they wouldn't turn it down but it's nothing to work/lobby/campaign/politic for.

B/S is also an unstoppable steamroller at Russian nationals. They've never lost a SD or fd while I/k have been As low as 4th in a fd and this has Happened regardless of how B/s has performed internationally.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
I completely forgot about the Shibutanis :eek: Their Michael Jackson number is going to crucify them. I don't even think it's the injury that's the biggest issue; it just seems Marina isn't focused on them and isn't bothered to package a convincing program for them. I think they are really competing directly with I&K for the 6th or 7th spot. They are distant candidates for the bronze but only if B&S, W&P, C&L, P&B, I&K bomb, and that is a lot of people to beat.

Unfortunately, I think P&B probably reached their peak with their first World Bronze, just like Faiella and Scali. I hate saying it but it seems that way. They aren't getting better in anything - not technically, artistically, and especially physically. It would be nice if I'm wrong since they've been around for so long and I would like to see them retire on a high note.

D&W might even last another year or two beyond Sochi. I doubt either V&M or D&W will miss Worlds, since I don't think they'll be satisfied with just 2 World titles given their ability to win multiple ones.

After D&W and V&M retire, W&P, C&L, B&S will fight for #1. If D&W and V&M don't retire, those aforementioned couples may still have a shot at beating them for #2 if they improve in spades and have Bolero-level programs.

I find it unlikely that I&K and the Shibs will be a factor in the medals in the next 3 years unless there's a revolutionary transformation like Michelle's '96 transformation.
 

trains

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
I think I read somewhere that V/M were done after Sochi. I just assumed that meant they weren't going to worlds, but I can't remember where I saw that.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Péchalat and Bourzat: The little prince and his rose (IceNetwork Interview)

I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed for them. The amount of thought and planning that has gone into this program is extremely impressive and I hope that it all works out.

Cappellini/LaNotte and Weaver/Poje both look very strong but I think that W/P have an edge at this point. Their FD makes a really strong statement whilst, as BlackPack said, C/L's is quite safe.

Bobrova/Soloviev's SD looks generic and whilst the concept of their FD seemed interesting, the changes Zhulin has recently made to it are for the worse IMO.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
.... Whichever of W&P and C&L dont get the Oly bronze will be given the World bronze as a consolation prize, unless one of the retiring D&W or V&M dont go (quite possible) in which case both will probably medal there.

.... I doubt either V&M or D&W will miss Worlds, since I don't think they'll be satisfied with just 2 World titles given their ability to win multiple ones. ....

I think I read somewhere that V/M were done after Sochi. I just assumed that meant they weren't going to worlds, but I can't remember where I saw that.

At the time of Worlds in London, many assumed that it would be Virtue/Moir's last. (The hometown location would have been all the more meaningful for them in that case.)
IIRC, I do not think V/M officially gave any outright confirmation or announcement, but I do not think that they discouraged the perception either.

Whether or not V/M changed their minds and have been sending a different signal more recently, I do not know. (Can't tell whether trains read something more current ... around the time of Skate Canada International, perhaps??)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Ziggy, that was such a great interview! Those that think of Igor as the evil opponent of good choreography should read it, because his method of working with students who already come with their own choreography is very interesting. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this FD!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
It will be one of Weaver & Poje or Cappellini & Lanotte. I guarantee it. Pechelat & Bourzat are on the way down, and home ice wont be able to save Bobrova & Soloviev and their yuck programs this year. I think it is more likely going to be W&P than C&L but we will see. Whichever of W&P and C&L dont get the Oly bronze will be given the World bronze as a consolation prize, unless one of the retiring D&W or V&M dont go (quite possible) in which case both will probably medal there.

I wouldn't be so sure. D/S were able to win bronze over B/A with those atrocious programs in Vancouver. So I would imagine B/S would get the same advantage. Plus, the only real shot at a medal is Pairs with V/T and the Team Event. Russia will want medals in at least 2 disciplines, and thanks to the lovely subjectivity of GOE/PCS in ice dance, the Russians could easily push a bronze win for B/S. As long as B/S stay on their feet the bronze is theirs, IMO.

Sorry, but I can't imagine the ice dance podium getting 2 Canadians and 1 American team, and shutting out all the European teams. Even if W/P deserve the bronze. C/L and P/B aren't contenders in my mind... they will only win bronze if W/P and B/S both mess up.
 

rosacotton

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Thus, the battle for bronze is more interesting to me. As of now, Cappellini & Lanotte, Bobrova & Soloviev, Weaver & Poje, Pechalat & Bourzat, Ilinykh & Katsalopov are the major contenders. The momentum favored B&S and C&L last season.

Ice dance potentially will be very exciting to watch when the Olympics arrive -- hoping everyone will skate their best, no disasters!

Right now, I'm hoping W/P (with C/L a close second) will pull off the win for the bronze. Yet for some reason I sense it may end up being B/S who get it; plus I'm not sure if Russia would be happy with another North American sweep as happened at 2011 Worlds.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I wouldn't be so sure. D/S were able to win bronze over B/A with those atrocious programs in Vancouver. So I would imagine B/S would get the same advantage. Plus, the only real shot at a medal is Pairs with V/T and the Team Event. Russia will want medals in at least 2 disciplines, and thanks to the lovely subjectivity of GOE/PCS in ice dance, the Russians could easily push a bronze win for B/S. As long as B/S stay on their feet the bronze is theirs, IMO.

Sorry, but I can't imagine the ice dance podium getting 2 Canadians and 1 American team, and shutting out all the European teams. Even if W/P deserve the bronze. C/L and P/B aren't contenders in my mind... they will only win bronze if W/P and B/S both mess up.

The judges allowed a North American Sweep at the 2011 Worlds and that was the Shibutanis (lol). I know they got super lucky with P/B's fall but they could have given the bronze to a Russian team on home ice, not saying they deserved it (IMO W/P were totally robbed of the bronze that year) but with P/B falling they could have done almost anything without controversy, and they were 6th and 7th.

I mentioned this in the other thread but the possiability of a mere bronze in ice dancing isnt such a big deal for the Russians they are going to politik heavily for, knowing there is absolutely no hope of the gold. Making sure V&T win gold is their biggest priority. Making sure they win a Team medal, preferably the gold, is a bigger priority.

I totally disagree those are their only medal shots. Barazova & Larionov most definitely have a real shot at atleast the bronze in the pairs. I dont see how you could dispute that. If there was any myth Duhamel & Radford had a lock on the bronze (which I never for a moment believed) that has exploded already. I actually expect if B&L skate decently on home ice they will be given the bronze or even silver if the Germans have problems, to give Russia 2 teams on the podium. That will be of more interest to the Russians than maybe an ice dance bronze.

Regardless of how strong his medal chances really are, if Plushenko make it to Sochi they will invest heavily in poliking for him, and way more than they ever would for B/S. Julia Lipnitskaia definitely has a shot at a medal if she keeps on the course she is on now, and Russia would love to get back on the podium in ladies, especialy with Radiaonov also age eligible next year. B/S and ice dancing will be an afterthought for the Russians. You will see the Russian dancers score higher in the team event than the individual though, mark my words.

Lastly Domnina & Shabalin are not a good example. They were the reigning World Champions. A reigning World Champion has never missed the podium in ice dancing at the Olympics. Anyway I wasnt impressed with Belbin & Agosto at all in Vancouver either. I would have given the bronze to Faiella & Scali in Vancouver, but that was never giong to happen. Bobrova & Soloviev are in no way of the stature of Domnina & Shabalin, with that kind of international rep value.
 
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