The Battle for Bronze - Ice Dance

tulosai · Oct 31, 2013

gmyers said:
They aren't going to work for bronze for b/s when gold for v/t is so much more likely. A team gold is also more possible than any dance medal. Gold Medals- wins- in Sochi are going to be the priority. Politics for Gold in 2018 can begin as soon as worlds 2014. I just assume no work will be done at all to get a Russian dance team a medal. especially not bronze which really gets no respect at all because silver and bronze means you lost the event. And Russia has always judged an Olympics by events won not the alternate rare medals won.

I don't know why you keep talking like Russia isn't going to politik for everything all at once. V/T are a lock for gold. I have no doubt Russia will keep promoting them and pushing them as number one, but when they are DEFINITIVELY number one and no matter what they do they will stay number one, I don't see Russia wasting ALL their energy on them- in fact, they'd be downright stupid to do so, V/T don't really need their help now.

Ziggy · Oct 31, 2013

rosacotton said:
Over at The Skating Lesson, Aaron Harris in his "Five Things to Watch for at Cup of China" post wonders if B/S may actually make it a three-way race for gold if they get scores close to V/M and D/W. That possibility hadn't crossed my mind before. Thoughts?

Absolutely ridiculous.

chuckm · Oct 31, 2013

It could happen if there is a Russia-friendly tech and judging panel. :sarcasm:

gmyers · Oct 31, 2013

tulosai said:
I don't know why you keep talking like Russia isn't going to politik for everything all at once. V/T are a lock for gold. I have no doubt Russia will keep promoting them and pushing them as number one, but when they are DEFINITIVELY number one and no matter what they do they will stay number one, I don't see Russia wasting ALL their energy on them- in fact, they'd be downright stupid to do so, V/T don't really need their help now.

But the absolute best b/s could do is bronze and that's not worth anything.

bramweld · Oct 31, 2013

Honestly who cares who wins the bronze at this point. Just look at this beautiful costume. Or should I say handsome man! Morozov must be off the crazy crack! I can't wait to see what Elena has in store for us. Nikita!http://ink361.com/app/photo/ig-578892786749780653_29489203

gmyers · Oct 31, 2013

rosacotton said:
Over at The Skating Lesson, Aaron Harris in his "Five Things to Watch for at Cup of China" post wonders if B/S may actually make it a three-way race for gold if they get scores close to V/M and D/W. That possibility hadn't crossed my mind before. Thoughts?

It's ridiculous. B/S are going to get 9.50 and 9.75 or even 10's? Against P/B who even injured got nearly the same PCS as B/S at worlds in London? It's not like B/S are showing they are judges favorites when C/L beat them in the FD at worlds and I/K beat them in Euros and they were last at the GPF! Where is the judges favor for B/S? The fact that they have the world bronze and euro titles? Without wining the Euro FD or coming in third in the world FD? I know its difficult for a lot of people to ever think a Russian dance team has actually earned success but with B/S not ever appearing to be judges favorites internationally maybe they just rose to the top based on others weaknesses! Like B/S and W/P injury! The only reason they had the euro title was P/B injury and world bronze was also because P/B W/P injury. C/L are rising so fast now and clearly are ahead of B/S in every way. One major way in preparation as B/S programs aren't even done.

pangtongfan said:
Exactly. The over the top myths that are coming out of B/S's bronze at Worlds, aka the Russian fix is in again, the big bad Russians control everything, B/S are a lock for bronze on home ice if they stand up, are ridiculous. B/S worked hard last year and improved alot under a new coach. They also got extremely lucky that teams like P/B, W/P, and even I/K were either injured or subpar all season along. Their bronze at Worlds was deserved, but it wasnt anything definitive. As you said even C/L beat them in the FD, and unlike now C/L were not yet taken seriously as medal contenders at all at point.

B/S will only win the bronze at the Games if they atleast arguably, if not even clearly deserve it, just as they only won bronze at Worlds because they deserved it (well could have easily gone to C/L too, but as I said they werent even viewed as contenders at the time). They dont have some big mythical Russian advantage people are trying to potray. Based on early sightings it is very unlikely they will win the bronze in Sochi as unlike last year W/P and C/L are both much stronger than they are right now, and have much better programs than they do.

It's true C/L are rising very fast and the world free dance third place show that. Because B/S just didn't deliver in that and frequently don't deliver and why I/K can beat them with Ghost at Euros in the FD or C/L can beat them in the worlds FD. What kind of fix involves 4th in a world FD and world bronze? If you have the power to fix an event and fix a medal I don't understand why you don't go for Gold? Russia had the world champions going into Vancouver and they fixed it so they would win bronze? What kind of ridiculous fix is that? Especially when Bronze doesn't mean anything there and gets people fired.

It really seems as though there are people who are just convinced that Russians never deserve any win or medal in ice dance or any win or medal by a Russian team in ice dance is due to extreme corruption! They are never ever deserving to some!

Macassar88 · Oct 31, 2013

Also, B/S's SD is actually pretty good - there's a lot of actual dance especially at the end after they finish the elements. And the Vivaldi part of their FD (the Lacrimosa part is really bad, but hopefully it'll be better later on)

Mrs. P · Oct 31, 2013

Macassar88 said:
Also, B/S's SD is actually pretty good - there's a lot of actual dance especially at the end after they finish the elements. And the Vivaldi part of their FD (the Lacrimosa part is really bad, but hopefully it'll be better later on)

The SD did look promising from what I saw on the YT video. Don't love the FD yet though.

Macassar88 · Oct 31, 2013

Mrs. P said:
The SD did look promising from what I saw on the YT video. Don't love the FD yet though.

Me neither - but I think that it could have potential if Zhulin fixes stuff. I think that there will be a lot of improvement over the season as they learn what to do. Remember that they learned that FD and SD in around a month (less, I think)

Ziggy · Oct 31, 2013

Macassar88 said:
Also, B/S's SD is actually pretty good - there's a lot of actual dance especially at the end after they finish the elements. And the Vivaldi part of their FD (the Lacrimosa part is really bad, but hopefully it'll be better later on)

To me their SD looked like a generic ballroom dance. But then all I've seen is a low quality video from Ice Star where the camera was quite far away.

Mathman · Oct 31, 2013

gmyers said:
She destroyed her business in 2010 because of both d/s and b/a.

Two of the all-time worst concepts in the history of ice dance.

Macassar88 · Oct 31, 2013

Ziggy said:
To me their SD looked like a generic ballroom dance. But then all I've seen is a low quality video from Ice Star where the camera was quite far away.

They were actually dancing though, not just doing crossovers and open skating

sky_fly20 · Nov 1, 2013

B/S have fallen into the bronze medal curse
B/S, P/B. S/S wont be winning that medal

it will be between W/P, C/L and I/K
personally hoping it will go to I/K, they are inconsistent but heir programs this season especially their FD is amazing with lovely lifts and chreography

Matt K · Nov 1, 2013

Macassar88 said:
They were actually dancing though, not just doing crossovers and open skating

I agree. They were doing a lot of closed dance hold positions that covered almost the entire length of the rink, which is very difficult that you don't see a lot of nowadays.

I/K have new, and much more challenging lifts this year but choreographically, their FD is still very open without a lot of close dance transitions in between the big elements. Their skating is top-notch, however, and along with V/M are the only two teams who have the best technique (their quality is superb).

Haven't seen B/S and P/B's FD so looking forward to that.

sky_fly20 · Nov 1, 2013

I/K are the underdogs so hopefully it will play well for them and not get into alot of pressure

I/K with their their crappy FD last season scored a 100+
their FD this season with more mileage can score 106+ max by Sochi
their lifts alone +2 GOE worthy

BlackPack · Nov 1, 2013

W&P got 70 for their SD. B&S got 65. P&B got 62 (?). W&P will most likely win the Bronze at this point. Even if the Olympics is in Russia, B&S have too much lost ground to make up. Zhulin isn't as exactly known as a miracle worker. He polishes his skaters and adds sensual moves here and there, but I don't see him pulling it off. Even Igor couldn't do much with P&B. Fantastic last lift in the SD for P&B though. Something was deducted? What was it?

Mrs. P · Nov 1, 2013

BlackPack said:
W&P got 70 for their SD. B&S got 65. P&B got 62 (?). W&P will most likely win the Bronze at this point. Even if the Olympics is in Russia, B&S have too much lost ground to make up. Zhulin isn't as exactly known as a miracle worker. He polishes his skaters and adds sensual moves here and there, but I don't see him pulling it off. Even Igor couldn't do much with P&B. Fantastic last lift in the SD for P&B though. Something was deducted? What was it?

Don't forget C/L, who got 69+

dorispulaski · Nov 1, 2013

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2013/gpchn2013_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Igor must have challenged the deduction, because the protocol shows P&B's score as 63.60, with no deductions?

elif · Nov 1, 2013

BlackPack said:
W&P got 70 for their SD. B&S got 65. P&B got 62 (?). W&P will most likely win the Bronze at this point. Even if the Olympics is in Russia, B&S have too much lost ground to make up. Zhulin isn't as exactly known as a miracle worker. He polishes his skaters and adds sensual moves here and there, but I don't see him pulling it off. Even Igor couldn't do much with P&B. Fantastic last lift in the SD for P&B though. Something was deducted? What was it?

You can't really compare two competition because of the different panels. You can't see many level 4 elements -especially CD- at the early season. Skate Canada and Skate America judges gave them even lower ranked teams. I think this is good for B/S and P/B. Because they knew what they did wrong.

dorispulaski · Nov 1, 2013

Yes, I think you're right.

The Battle for Bronze - Ice Dance

tulosai

Ziggy

chuckm

gmyers

bramweld

gmyers

Macassar88

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Macassar88

Ziggy

Mathman

Macassar88

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Matt K

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

BlackPack

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

elif

dorispulaski

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