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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #271
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Buttle will be known as the ultimate CoP master for his intentional fall on the quad in 2006 that got him the bronze.
    He could have just done a 2Axel instead and won the Bronze anyway. The judges had him way ahead. But, yes, it's annoying the amount of points people get for doing a quad splat. The problem has only gotten worse with updated CoP rules (6.3 points for a fall on a Quad Toe these days...sigh), which is a big reason for why Patrick Chan's competitive results are seen as undeserved.

    Matt Savoie deserved that Bronze medal, to me. In terms of PCS he had the best LP of the competition and his jumps were good enough. Sublime choreography and interpretation, with by FAR the most difficult transitions. Really unfair scores there.

  2. #272
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    I would not cite the high YouTube interest in Davis/White's Bollywood OD (although very cool ) as a reason that they will be remembered as great skaters.

    As you say, many of the YouTube viewers were not skating fans. Although the numbers indicate a strong appreciation for D/W's creativity and authenticity, I don't think they are a barometer of the quality of their ice dancing per se.

    (Off topic: IIRC, the iPad went on the market just after the 2010 Olympics, where presumably many who do not follow skating first laid eyes on D/W's Bollywood number.)
    The YouTube interest, however, does point to a certain part of accessibility and relatability D/W provided to nonfans. We talk endlessly about how to engage more nonfans with the sport, and D/W played a small part in doing so.

    That said, I think they will be remembered for their creative and interesting OD/SD over the years. I think they'll be remember for their athleticism as well.

    Not directing this at you golden411, but just a general thought: Why does there have to be a mutual exclusivity in terms of remembrance? It's not like V/M will be remembered any less because D/W is up there as well. I guess if the discussion is "most remembered" then perhaps we can have a discussion, but I still think both couples have different reasons to be remembered.

  3. #273
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    The YouTube interest, however, does point to a certain part of accessibility and relatability D/W provided to nonfans. We talk endlessly about how to engage more nonfans with the sport, and D/W played a small part in doing so.

    That said, I think they will be remembered for their creative and interesting OD/SD over the years. I think they'll be remember for their athleticism as well.

    Not directing this at you golden411, but just a general thought: Why does there have to be a mutual exclusivity in terms of remembrance? It's not like V/M will be remembered any less because D/W is up there as well. I guess if the discussion is "most remembered" then perhaps we can have a discussion, but I still think both couples have different reasons to be remembered.
    Agree completely that nothing is to be gained by thinking in terms of mutual exclusivity. For ice dance, I think that many will remember both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White among the greats.

    My point about Bollywood is that its YouTube popularity showed that many, many viewers found it entertaining, even if they knew little or nothing about skating.
    Of course, the Bollywood program also was was technically demanding, but the majority of viewers did not have the background to make much more than a superficial assessment of the technical difficulty.
    So I was raising the question of whether (or to what extent) success as sheer entertainers as quantified by that one video contributes to D/W's stature as great skaters. Although I agree that relatability is good for the sport, I believe -- as you do -- that D/W offer a lot more than mere entertainment value.

  4. #274
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    The greats will include the Protopopovs (sorry about butchering the name(, Gordeeva and Grinkov, Torvill and Dean, Klimova and Pomarenko, Toller Cranston (for his originality), yuna kim, Michelle kwan, Katarina Witt, sonja Henie, Midori Ito, Kurt Browning, Evgeni Plushenko, Artur dimitriev (not no partner mentioned), Irina Rodina again no partner mentioned, Virtue and Moir will only make it if they manage to win a 2nd ogm and that is unlikely. Being great imho is more than winning medals or ogm and there aren't a lot. A lot of very memorable but great is the creme de la creme Otherwise I would add Liz Manley, Oksana Baiul, Sasha Cohen, Mao Asada, Gritschuk and Platov, Brian Boitano, Brian Orser, Stephane Lambiel, Jeffrey Buttle, Alexei Yagudin, Ilia Kulik, Sale and Pelletier, B and S (I won't even try their names), Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamil, Irina Slutskaya, Surya BOnaly, Maria Butyrskaya, Denise Bielman, Bestminaova and Bukin, Robin Cousins, John Curry,Shen and Zhao, T and M, Usova and Zhulin, Krylova and Oksianikov, Anissina and Peizerot,

  5. #275
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    The greats will include the Protopopovs (sorry about butchering the name(, Gordeeva and Grinkov, Torvill and Dean, Klimova and Pomarenko, Toller Cranston (for his originality), yuna kim, Michelle kwan, Katarina Witt, sonja Henie, Midori Ito, Kurt Browning, Evgeni Plushenko, Artur dimitriev (not no partner mentioned), Irina Rodina again no partner mentioned, Virtue and Moir will only make it if they manage to win a 2nd ogm and that is unlikely. Being great imho is more than winning medals or ogm and there aren't a lot. A lot of very memorable but great is the creme de la creme Otherwise I would add Liz Manley, Oksana Baiul, Sasha Cohen, Mao Asada, Gritschuk and Platov, Brian Boitano, Brian Orser, Stephane Lambiel, Jeffrey Buttle, Alexei Yagudin, Ilia Kulik, Sale and Pelletier, B and S (I won't even try their names), Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamil, Irina Slutskaya, Surya BOnaly, Maria Butyrskaya, Denise Bielman, Bestminaova and Bukin, Robin Cousins, John Curry,Shen and Zhao, T and M, Usova and Zhulin, Krylova and Oksianikov, Anissina and Peizerot,
    Who is Irina Todina? I think I have a very very comprehensive grasp of figure skating greats, legends, even 'goods' but have never heard of her.

  6. #276
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    He could have just done a 2Axel instead and won the Bronze anyway. The judges had him way ahead. But, yes, it's annoying the amount of points people get for doing a quad splat. The problem has only gotten worse with updated CoP rules (6.3 points for a fall on a Quad Toe these days...sigh), which is a big reason for why Patrick Chan's competitive results are seen as undeserved.

    Matt Savoie deserved that Bronze medal, to me. In terms of PCS he had the best LP of the competition and his jumps were good enough. Sublime choreography and interpretation, with by FAR the most difficult transitions. Really unfair scores there.
    I agree, if ever there was a case for wuz robbing, Savoie at the 06 Olympics is the prime example.

    I just still have a very hard time that a skater who admittedly planned to fall because he knew he wouldn't land it - that he just needed the revolutions - exploited the rule to gain a spot on the podium.

  7. #277
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    I would not cite the high YouTube interest in Davis/White's Bollywood OD (although very cool ) as a reason that they will be remembered as great skaters.
    I wasn't suggesting that, merely that they have impacted their sport. They got people talking with that program. It will be a signature program when folks talk about them. They gained a lot of exposure. It is a PART of what made them great. Not the only reason, but a part of it.

  8. #278
    Missing D&G GF2445's Avatar
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    Chinese Pair Teams

    Zhen and Zhao
    Pang and Tong
    Zhang and Zhang

    They were amazing pair teams! I won't forget them in a hurry.

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