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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    I too respect your opinion and agree that Asada have a great career and is one of the leading ladies for this sport in Japan. However, I do wonder if she skate for Korea and Yuna skate for Japan, how their fortune might have been reversed entirely? By that I mean, federation, training support, rules and point value changes, sponsorship, commercial interests. There's no doubt in my mind, one of would have had FAR MORE SUCCESS; the other - I honestly can't say, especially given the triple axle as impressive as it is, has also PROVEN to be unreliable and prone to UR.
    1. If Asada had been skating for Korea, maybe she could have learned to do a proper Lutz from whoever taught Yu-na to jump, while Yu-na would be attempting a triple Axel and flutzing like mad. Or lipping; I guess Miki Ando and Shizuka Arakawa are Japanese, after all.
    2. Lol "rule and point value changes" - you just can't get over this, can you? I'd outline the "rule and point value changes" you object to and why they are far better than the previous rules (e.g. decreasing double Axel point value, increasing triple Axel point value, decreasing triple jump GOE, allowing a triple Axel in short) but as you apparently see nothing wrong with (a) the positive GOE scaling for a double Axel being the same as a TRIPLE Axel (1, 2, 3), (b) nothing wrong with a 3A-2T being worth less than a 3Lutz-3T (a travesty, according to such "illustrious sources" as British Eurosport commentators, Alexei Mishin, Kristi Yamaguchi of all people, and Elvis Stojko, that still has not been rectified), (c) a triple Lutz with +2.2 GOE being worth as much as a +0 triple Axel, and (d) a triple Axel that's a 1/4 turn short being worth as much as a double Axel with -GOE, so I guess there's nothing that can convince you otherwise.

    As for the rest of your post, why does Asada have to match Kim's accomplishments win for win and point for point in order to impress you properly? Kim obviously is better known due to her greater success and greater consistency. I don't see the need to put an asterisk next to everything Asada does that Kim hasn't done.

  2. #152
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    ... I bet if you shouted, Katerina Witt at a party maybe a few might know she is a CELEBRITY but probably less than a few would know she is a figure skater and as the years go by even less than that.
    Strongly disagree, if the party were in the U.S. If Witt's name rings a bell to an American who does not follow skating, I feel pretty sure that her success on Olympic ice would be the reason.

    I would not expect the person to recall any details -- two Olympic golds as opposed to one, which years, which programs, etc.
    But I think it is very likely that s/he would readily identify skating as the origin of Witt's name recognition.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    OKAY, all the above I mentioned is not important. In a TV interview, the interviewer pointed to a Magazine (Mao Asada as the cover) and asked Zijun: " what do you think of Mao (some question similar to this)。“ and Zijun said with out any hesitation " My idol is Yuna!"
    Oh, I'd really like to see this interview. Link, please! I find it rather interesting that Zijun would be asked about Mao, but instead reply about Yuna being her idol!

  4. #154
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    If Mao's 3A is as majestic as Madori's or Tonya Harding's. I will really respect her. She can rotate a 3A when she was younger, now barely a 2-foot 3A. Many young skaters or elder skaters can do a 3A, they just do not use it in competition to earn the points if they 2-foot it or under-rotates it.
    Yuna's 3Lz-3T is as the greatest as you can ever get from ladies, even comparable to men.

  5. #155
    Custom Title yuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    If Mao's 3A is as majestic as Madori's or Tonya Harding's. I will really respect her. She can rotate a 3A when she was younger, now barely a 2-foot 3A. Many young skaters or elder skaters can do a 3A, they just do not use it in competition to earn the points if they 2-foot it or under-rotates it.
    Yuna's 3Lz-3T is as the greatest as you can ever get from ladies, even comparable to men.
    Can you provide a list (female skaters only, of course)? It shouldn't be difficult, seeing as there are apparently so many of them.

  6. #156
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate
    Many young skaters or elder skaters can do a 3A, they just do not use it in competition to earn the points if they 2-foot it or under-rotates it.
    Wait, what? You are talking about the ladies, aren't you? I'd really like to know who those skaters are supposed to be!

    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada
    As for the rest of your post, why does Asada have to match Kim's accomplishments win for win and point for point in order to impress you properly?
    Maybe we shouldn't count any accomplishments that were received under circumstances Yuna didn't have the chance to compete under? Hey, she never competed under 6.0, so I'm sorry, but any medals won under that system are void! Makes sense

    (Sorry, I absolutly have no problem with saying that Yuna is higher on the all time greats list than Mao, and that she has/had a stronger career. But some comments are just a little too weird.)

  7. #157
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    Regarding the Mao debates there are different levels of being remembered. I do think she will remembered as one of the greats to a degree. However she wont be remembered the same way Kim, Davis & White, and Virtue & Moir are, that is as a top 5 all time in their discipline, or possibly the best ever. The legacies of those three are on a higher scale than anyone else today. Unless Mao wins the Olympics with a sensational performance something like Kim in 2010, and in that case this might change for her. Right now I think she would be remembered as a great but more a Slutskaya or Lambiel type of great, remembered for her qualities and being a great skater in her era, but not one of the top few skaters all time either.

  8. #158
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Oh goodness, how did this turn into a Yuna vs. Mao thread?

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallize View Post
    Oh, I'd really like to see this interview. Link, please! I find it rather interesting that Zijun would be asked about Mao, but instead reply about Yuna being her idol!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BqldcmmpSM

    here you go, it was in 2011, now zijun learned to say I also like Mao in public.

  10. #160
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan
    Right now I think she would be remembered as a great but more a Slutskaya or Lambiel type of great, remembered for her qualities and being a great skater in her era, but not one of the top few skaters all time either.
    I'd agree with that, and I don't think the majority of Mao fans would complain.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BqldcmmpSM

    here you go, it was in 2011, now zijun learned to say I also like Mao in public.
    So it's that interview! ha. Unsurprisingly, this interview did not happen the way you say it did. lol. And nobody is forcing Zijun to say anything in public.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BqldcmmpSM

    here you go, it was in 2011, now zijun learned to say I also like Mao in public.
    Oh, please. I know Chinese. The interviewer said, "blah blah blah this is Mao Asada (holds book). She's the strongest skater from Japan, and pretty much the world's best. But of course between her and Yu-na Kim there is still some disparity (disparity in points). Who is your favorite skater?"

    Zijun replied "Kim Yu-na." When asked why, she cited speed, performance ability, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Regarding the Mao debates there are different levels of being remembered. I do think she will remembered as one of the greats to a degree. However she wont be remembered the same way Kim, Davis & White, and Virtue & Moir are, that is as a top 5 all time in their discipline, or possibly the best ever. The legacies of those three are on a higher scale than anyone else today. Unless Mao wins the Olympics with a sensational performance something like Kim in 2010, and in that case this might change for her. Right now I think she would be remembered as a great but more a Slutskaya or Lambiel type of great, remembered for her qualities and being a great skater in her era, but not one of the top few skaters all time either.
    That is what I'd say too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Oh goodness, how did this turn into a Yuna vs. Mao thread?
    I could argue that it was fated to become one from the very beginning. The very first post said "rivalry between her and Yuna." Of course as Moment is a Yuna fan, he/she feels the need to cite a rivalry before saying it is not legitimate.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    Did you see Zijun do 2A-3T, 3S, 3Loop and her -3T exactly same skills as Yuna's.
    Have you see Zijun do inna bauer as soon as her capability allowed her to do it. Have you notice that Zijun likes to skate on one foot with deep edges changes just like Yuna does (although not as good though).
    Huh? Lol did you even read my post before answering? I said she listed Yuna as her idol. I just don't think her skating style (which has nothing to do with jumps) is similar to Yuna much. Most skaters attempt those jumps you listed. And if you really want to draw similarities there, you shouldn't include 3loop, a jump Kim doesn't usually include in her layout. And any skater who wants to be a good skater would want to skate with deep edges.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Oh, please. I know Chinese. The interviewer said, "blah blah blah this is Mao Asada (holds book). She's the strongest skater from Japan, and pretty much the world's best. But of course between her and Yu-na Kim there is still some disparity (disparity in points). Who is your favorite skater?"

    Zijun replied "Kim Yu-na." When asked why, she cited speed, performance ability, etc.
    Your translation is accurate. As for connotation, I would not argue more, if people understand Chinese well, they will know. as far as who is Zijun's idol, there is no doubt -- Yuna, She made it very clear in all sorts of media including her own social network (weibo).She added I also like Mao once in a interview in Japan. I do not wanna argue about Yuna vs Mao anymore.

    I made my point,

    1, Yuna is idolized by many young skaters from ALL OVER the word.
    2, Mao's 3A is not that great. If you consider She is one of the greatest based on that is a little itchy.

    Even if Yuna didnot win OGM, I will consider Yuna as one of the greatest. just like I respect Janet Lynn, because of Yuna's legacy to the skating word.
    textbook technique and a true dancer on ice.
    besides that, a humble person, a gentle soul. ........ the list could go no

  15. #165
    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    Did you see Zijun do 2A-3T, 3S, 3Loop and her -3T exactly same skills as Yuna's.
    Have you see Zijun do inna bauer as soon as her capability allowed her to do it. Have you notice that Zijun likes to skate on one foot with deep edges changes just like Yuna does (although not as good though).

    OKAY, all the above I mentioned is not important. In a TV interview, the interviewer pointed to a Magazine (Mao Asada as the cover) and asked Zijun: " what do you think of Mao (some question similar to this)。“ and Zijun said with out any hesitation " My idol is Yuna!"

    Who is the lady skater that majority of current young skaters listed as idol from all sorts of nationalities (including Japan and Russia).

    That skater is destined to be one of the greatest!
    I am almost never going to go against anything positive that is said about Kim but a little perspective is in order here. Zijun is Chinese (Mao is Japanese with all that implies) and has a way to go for her opinion to be considered anything of significance in regards to who her influences are. Michelle Kwan being an important influence for Kim; now that says something.

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