Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Oh I don't know are any one of them talked about as much as Mao? :think:

when it was happening? yeah it was just as brutal... it takes about a decade for it to start to die down to where it's not EVERY thread...
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
does that mean every ladies skater who ever bested Kwan is a legend? :laugh:

I don't know about Tara and Irina, but you gotta give it up for Josee Chouinard at the 2000 Canadian Open.

(What?! I was going to give a link. Can you believe this program is not on You Tube?)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't know about Tara and Irina, but you gotta give it up for Josee Chouinard at the 2000 Canadian Open.

(What?! I was going to give a link. Can you believe this program is not on You Tube?)

You read my mind, MM! I was just on youtube trying to find the programs Josee used to beat Kwan! Guess I need to find my tape and put in on Youtube!

ETA - Kwan and her fans did not take that loss very well. :laugh:
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I am sorry many have said she dos not move them and we understand why that is.

Oh, lord, this thread is a trainwreck, but seriously? There are opinions and then there are lies. You have a right to an opinion that Yu-Na doesn't move you. Fine. I have no problem with that. Newsflash: a skater's greatness isn't defined by their ability to "move" skateluvr on Goldenskate.com.

But you offer zero evidence for the complaint that there is "no real connection with audience." Who are the "many" who have said that she does not move them and who is the "we" that you are talking about? LOL! And why have you conveniently ignored the many standing ovations by the audiences (including an epic one at the most recent 2013 Worlds), the skating commentators who marveled at Yu-Na, the compliments by former skating champions, the young skaters who cite Yu-Na as an inspiration, all in favor of a complaint with very little support? None of that matters! Skateluvr has decreed that Yu-Na doesn't move anyone, therefore Yu-Na cannot be considered great.

Really, skateluvr, you would tell someone who was leaping out of their seat to applaud Yu-Na's performance 15-20 seconds before it was over at 2013 Worlds, "Most say that she doesn't move them, and we understand why that is." You don't have a "balanced, accurate" view of YuNa. You have your opinions and a right to them, but you don't support your arguments in a way that indicates you are balanced, objective, reasonable, or even logical.

You want moving? I'll show you moving. Watch this video. Watch it from the beginning to the end. And marvel at how artists immortalized Yu-Na's epic 2010 Olympic performances. Performances that didn't move you, but CLEARLY moved and inspired other people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A7rZuiibAPo#t=74s

Who's that skater? Oh, some anonymous skater who never gave a single performance that people will remember. Funny that they chose to immortalize that skater's performance over anyone else's from the 2010 Olympics, when they could have immortalized V/M, or Rochette's. The fact that Yu-Na's performances inspired another group of artists to create that work of art speaks volumes about her greatness, more than this little squabble on GS ever could.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
You read my mind, MM! I was just on youtube trying to find the programs Josee used to beat Kwan! Guess I need to find my tape and put in on Youtube!

ETA - Kwan and her fans did not take that loss very well. :laugh:

Well of course we didn't. Chouinard fell on a triple Lutz, while Michelle was meh but clean. The announcers mentioned something about interpreting the music, telling a delightful story, etc., but I think it was rampant Chouinardflation in Canada.

By the way, there was a little feature after that and if I remember the story correctly, Josee was actually all but retired by that time and was teaching school. When she came back with a gold medal all her students swarmed around her like a hero and she used the experience to teach a lesson about never give up, challenge the odds, remember David and Goliath, etc., etc. :yes:
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Well of course we didn't. Chouinard fell on a triple Lutz, while Michelle was meh but clean. The announcers mentioned something about interpreting the music, telling a delightful story, etc., but I think it was rampant Chouinardflation in Canada.

By the way, there was a little feature after that and if I remember the story correctly, Josee was actually all but retired by that time and was teaching school. When she came back with a gold medal all her students swarmed around her like a hero and she used the experience to teach a lesson about never give up, challenge the odds, remember David and Goliath, etc., etc. :yes:

if by teaching you mean coaching - she made it a point to give a shout out to her skating students. She still teaches as the Granite Club (according to her LinkedIn account).

and Josee skated with heart - something Kwan could only dream of! :p :laugh:
 

Peach

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 30, 2013
That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever), she's the first Asian lady to win multiple world championships, a Guinness World Record for her Triple Axels. Yes she only has two World medals, but apart from Kim's gold- they have more or less the same amount of medals. I would definitely credit that as a GREAT career. Asada has never finished lower than top 10 in the World. If she doesn't win the OGM at Sochi, people surely will still remember her. Not only that, she has a MASSIVE following around the world. If that isn't a great career, I don't know what is. I respect your opinion, but I find it a little too obtuse.
Ok maybe I was a bit harsh, but I was simply stating my opinion. I appreciate that you respect my opinion and I respect yours as well :). I know that she has a huge following in the skating world. I love watching Mao too
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism.

Toller Cranston also thought Kurt Browning wasn't a great skater and would never be legendary (I'm paraphrasing a paraphrase from Browning's autobiography). Toller is not the be all end all of skating opinion.
 

EricRohmer

On the Ice
Joined
May 31, 2010
I think both young zijun and young yuna when asked about idol, they really didnot think that much about history or politics, they just liked their idols's skating. especially, when young skaters list idol outside their own nationality, it almost always means that they purely love their idols' skating.

Agree.
Here is a Korean article published in January 2000.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7228/icingg.jpg

[Yuna Kim is in the third grade of Sinheung elementary school. (...snip...)
Kim says that her favorite skater is Michelle Kwan who skates well and her dream is becoming a good skater then becoming a skating teacher.]

This was before Kwan gets the third WC title and becomes a legend like now.
Anyway, this shows how special Kwan is and how consistent (& pure :)) Yuna's admiring Kwan is.
 

cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!

How do you know that? Do you read mind?
Since you brought in Mao, did Toller say Mao moves him? or Caro or anybody else? In my observation. Mao moves less people than YuNa does. And, many many people said so. I heard lots of criticisms on MK's performance, too. Does that mean she did not move many people? Yes, you have right to post. But, you are repeating the same story again and again, Your point has been taken very clearly. I see no point of your repeating. Yes, I am uber uber fan of YuNa. But, do I visit every Mao-related thread to simply criticize her? But, you do. You must be uber uber hater of YuNa.

Do not post your biased opinion as if it were truth.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
If we're asking about long-term horizons about who'll be "remembered" as great, you should listen to young aspiring skaters themselves, as I think they have the bigger influence in passing down tales of legends and memories of great performances. They often speak of their idols--Mao of Midori Ito and Yuna of Michelle Kwan--which tends to keep these great skaters from the previous era fresh in the mind of young fans who may not even have been old enough to be aware of them. Inspiration is one of the biggest test of greatness, and no matter how many times some people crow about not being "moved" by a certain skater, the fact is many fans and actual figure skaters are being moved--not just emotionally as a passive spectator, but to pursue their goals and dreams. If that's not "moving" people with your skating, nothing is.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
If we're asking about long-term horizons about who'll be "remembered" as great, you should listen to young aspiring skaters themselves, as I think they have the bigger influence in passing down tales of legends and memories of great performances. They often speak of their idols--Mao of Midori Ito and Yuna of Michelle Kwan--which tends to keep these great skaters from the previous era fresh in the mind of young fans who may not even have been old enough to be aware of them. Inspiration is one of the biggest test of greatness, and no matter how many times some people crow about not being "moved" by a certain skater, the fact is many fans and actual figure skaters are being moved--not just emotionally as a passive spectator, but to pursue their goals and dreams. If that's not "moving" people with your skating, nothing is.

:clap:
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
In Dance, I'm not sure that V/M and D/W will be remembered as well as Torvill & Dean and Grishuk & Platov are. If V/M wins second OGM, maybe (but I don't think that's going to happen).
Han Yan, if he keeps his jumps and develops skating skills to match Patrick's, maybe.
Julia, if she keeps her incredible flexibility and further improves her skating skills and learns to jump big, maybe.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
The rivalry between Yuna and Mao does not exist, it was invented by Koreans and Japaneses, as part of their traditional hating. Yuna ans Mao are different skaters with different styles, each one with her career and accomplishments. When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
What bothers me is when they start to bring 1000000 arguments why Yuna is great and Mao isn't or the other way around, or try to convince me that the likes and dislikes on youtube don't come from Asians, like the whole world would be interested only in Yuna and Mao. :laugh::rolleye::rolleye:
 

pec0

Match Penalty
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Rivalry?

The rivalry between Yuna and Mao does not exist, it was invented by Koreans and Japaneses, as part of their traditional hating. Yuna ans Mao are different skaters with different styles, each one with her career and accomplishments. When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
What bothers me is when they start to bring 1000000 arguments why Yuna is great and Mao isn't or the other way around, or try to convince me that the likes and dislikes on youtube don't come from Asians, like the whole world would be interested only in Yuna and Mao. :laugh::rolleye::rolleye:
I do not see your point. Clearly people here agree Yuna is No.1 and Mao is nobody compared to Yuna's brilliant career so there is no rivalry between them.

>When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
What makes you think that? As kindly informed by Korean fans above, there are many younger skaters in Korea who are inspired by Queen Yuna-Kim. Also there will still be some other Japanese skaters who might not be so bad as you think. I'm just curious.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever)
In case it hasn't been pointed out yet, Asada is not the first to win all the GPs, though she is the first singles skater to have done so. Shen and Zhao were the first to win all six GPs (as well as the GPF and the now-discontinued Bofrost Cup, see here). S/Z and Mao were joined this past weekend by Savchenko/Szolkowy, whose CoC title rounded out their GP collection. Brian Joubert chased the GP record for a while but never managed to win CoC. I don't think anyone else has won more than four.

Back on topic, I like Mao and Yuna. I don't understand why so many fans think these are mutually exclusive opinions, seeing as how they are such different skaters that it's possible to appreciate each for her strengths and accomplishments.

I think it's too soon to say that any current skaters will be remembered among the greats, with the exception of Evgeni Plushenko. Mao, Yuna, the top two ice dance teams, Takahashi and S/S also strike me as possibilities. Among skaters who retired in recent years, I'd add Lambiel and S/Z.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Back on topic, I like Mao and Yuna. I don't understand why so many fans think these are mutually exclusive opinions, seeing as how they are such different skaters that it's possible to appreciate each for her strengths and accomplishments.

Nationalistic bias, I've explained it in my previous post. If Yuna were Japanese, Koreans would say that she is a bad skater.
 
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