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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Huh? Lol did you even read my post before answering? I said she listed Yuna as her idol. I just don't think her skating style (which has nothing to do with jumps) is similar to Yuna much. Most skaters attempt those jumps you listed. And if you really want to draw similarities there, you shouldn't include 3loop, a jump Kim doesn't usually include in her layout. And any skater who wants to be a good skater would want to skate with deep edges.
    I read you post thoroughly, I intentionally added 3 loop, because, zijun used similar technique as Yuna's 3loop (Yuna did not include it in her layout does not mean she can do it beautifully). Also, you think Zijun's light airy style is similar to Mao's, well just my opinion, I did not see that many skating style similarity between Zijun and Mao. Because, Zijun tends to skate on one leg, with many deep edge, turn, changes of direction, and balance well on that, Well, Mao's virtue in skating style is more of a very up-straight posture. Mao's airy skating style is very different from Zijun's light skating style. because they have different ways of applying forces on blades, To me, Zijun is closer to Yuna in terms of that. Of course, Zijun is a unique skater herself, has her own unique quality.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I read you post thoroughly, I intentionally added 3 loop, because, zijun used similar technique as Yuna's 3loop (Yuna did not include it in her layout does not mean she can do it beautifully). Also, you think Zijun's light airy style is similar to Mao's, well just my opinion, I did not see that many skating style similarity between Zijun and Mao. Because, Zijun tends to skate on one leg, with many deep edge, turn, changes of direction, and balance well on that, Well, Mao's virtue in skating style is more of a very up-straight posture. Mao's airy skating style is very different from Zijun's light skating style. because they have different ways of applying forces on blades, To me, Zijun is closer to Yuna in terms of that. Of course, Zijun is a unique skater herself, has her own unique quality.
    I find it very hard to make sense of what you are trying to say here. But I kinda know what you're aiming at here and it's not something I want to get into.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    I am almost never going to go against anything positive that is said about Kim but a little perspective is in order here. Zijun is Chinese (Mao is Japanese with all that implies) and has a way to go for her opinion to be considered anything of significance in regards to who her influences are. Michelle Kwan being an important influence for Kim; now that says something.
    I think both young zijun and young yuna when asked about idol, they really didnot think that much about history or politics, they just liked their idols's skating. especially, when young skaters list idol outside their own nationality, it almost always means that they purely love their idols' skating.

    I dont think the history of Japan vs China is a problem in skating community. since, japanese skater are widely loved in China, including lots of fans on this board.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    If Mao's 3A is as majestic as Madori's or Tonya Harding's. I will really respect her. She can rotate a 3A when she was younger, now barely a 2-foot 3A. Many young skaters or elder skaters can do a 3A, they just do not use it in competition to earn the points if they 2-foot it or under-rotates it.
    Yuna's 3Lz-3T is as the greatest as you can ever get from ladies, even comparable to men.
    Who are the many young and older skaters who do the 3A?

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I find it very hard to make sense of what you are trying to say here. But I kinda know what you're aiming at here and it's not something I want to get into.
    I know exactly what I am saying. it is really hard to describe skating skills/technique in words. In short, my opinion: Zijun, and Mao both looked light on ice. however that is due to different reasons. Zijun's lightness is mostly due to her lack of leg/core strength, Mao's lightness is due to her great up-straight/steady posture. In terms of how to utilizing edges to generate speed, Zijun is closer to Yuna's style.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    Who are the many young and older skaters who do the 3A?
    I provided 2 names that is already enough to make my point. I said many skaters can do a 3A,but do not use them in competition because their 3A is not perfect, I will never know who landed 3A in practice, cos there is no video how do I know, as far as I heard/saw videos, Liza can land 3A (there is video), gracie, Caroline Zhang(these I heard). Who knows who else has landed in their home rink.

    here is a link as far as lady skaters attempted 3A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SMYaEwGyM

    Mao probably does have higher successful rate in 3A than most other current lady skaters. but that only does not measure up be the greatest. If her 3A is really a good quality and consistent 3A (I am not even talk about height/length just fully rotated and landed), I will really respect her and consider her to be one of the greatest, and her 3A to be her legacy.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I provided 2 names that is already enough to make my point. I said many skaters can do a 3A,but do not use them in competition because their 3A is not perfect, I will never know who landed 3A in practice, cos there is no video how do I know, as far as I heard/saw videos, Liza can land 3A (there is video), gracie, Caroline Zhang(these I heard). Who knows who else has landed in their home rink.

    here is a link as far as lady skaters attempted 3A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SMYaEwGyM

    Mao probably does have higher successful rate in 3A than most other current lady skaters. but that only does not measure up be the greatest. If her 3A is really a good quality and consistent 3A (I am not even talk about height/length just fully rotated and landed), I will really respect her and consider her to be one of the greatest, and her 3A to be her legacy.
    Hmmm, I wouldn't consider 2 as "many skaters"....

  8. #173
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    sometimes I wonder if some "yuna fans" are really her enemies??, if Yuna read that posts probably she would say "you dont help me, thank you"

  9. #174
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    Yea, so these young skaters have no issue attempting difficult 3-3 combos even if they make mistakes on them (i.e. ur, pop, or two foot them) but they won't put out a 3A (which they are able to do so well in practice) unless it's perfect.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I provided 2 names that is already enough to make my point. I said many skaters can do a 3A,but do not use them in competition because their 3A is not perfect, I will never know who landed 3A in practice, cos there is no video how do I know, as far as I heard/saw videos, Liza can land 3A (there is video), gracie, Caroline Zhang(these I heard). Who knows who else has landed in their home rink.
    No, it isn't - 2 or 3 does not equal "many". This is merely an attempt on your part to trivialize the 3A as a jump that many ladies can (allegedly) do, but choose not to, when in reality only a handful of them have even attempted this jump and most may consider that the risk associated with trying it in competition is higher than the reward.

    Btw, attempting a jump in practice and actually executing it in competition are two very different things, but I am sure you already knew that.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I provided 2 names that is already enough to make my point. I said many skaters can do a 3A,but do not use them in competition because their 3A is not perfect, I will never know who landed 3A in practice, cos there is no video how do I know, as far as I heard/saw videos, Liza can land 3A (there is video), gracie, Caroline Zhang(these I heard). Who knows who else has landed in their home rink.

    here is a link as far as lady skaters attempted 3A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SMYaEwGyM

    Mao probably does have higher successful rate in 3A than most other current lady skaters. but that only does not measure up be the greatest. If her 3A is really a good quality and consistent 3A (I am not even talk about height/length just fully rotated and landed), I will really respect her and consider her to be one of the greatest, and her 3A to be her legacy.
    "The greatest" 3A is Midori's. Mao's cannot measure up to hers; on that we agree. However, Mao's 3A success rate is far higher than Tonya Harding's despite Tonya's greater height. If we're calling Harding and Ito "the greats" then Asada's success rate measures up. If it's just Ito then you should say "the great" (lol).

    While we're talking about 3As in practice, I'd like to quote Yuna herself (in translation): "In that harness thing? Anyone can land a triple Axel in that thing." Out of harness, we have footage of Liza landing it. Which is nice but she hasn't done it once in competition while Mao has landed at least one good (no two-foots, positive GOE) triple Axel in competition for 9 out of the past 10 seasons. That is not a bad statistic.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Strongly disagree, if the party were in the U.S. If Witt's name rings a bell to an American who does not follow skating, I feel pretty sure that her success on Olympic ice would be the reason.

    I would not expect the person to recall any details -- two Olympic golds as opposed to one, which years, which programs, etc.
    But I think it is very likely that s/he would readily identify skating as the origin of Witt's name recognition.
    I think she's known more for her body than her body of work...

  13. #178
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    Never mind.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-03-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    No, it isn't - 2 or 3 does not equal "many". This is merely an attempt on your part to trivialize the 3A as a jump that many ladies can (allegedly) do, but choose not to, when in reality only a handful of them have even attempted this jump and most may consider that the risk associated with trying it in competition is higher than the reward.

    Btw, attempting a jump in practice and actually executing it in competition are two very different things, but I am sure you already knew that.
    Yup, That's why I said, Mao is the current lady skater who probably has the highest successful rate of 3A. I did not say anything imply that 3A is not a difficult element, it is very difficult for ladies. And Mao has already earned a lot of merits, reputations and fans on that alone.

    That been said, I do not condone that attempt a element when you apparently know that your successful rate is really low, but still wanna try your luck, and milking the system, modify the technique, such as pre-rotate or under-rotate as much as you are allowed, or a cheated 2-foot 3A will still earn lots of points. Well this is just my opinion.

    My point is clear I don't think her 3A quality/consistency is good enough to earn her the greatest and be her legacy. Apparently, there are ladies out there does better quality 3A then hers. I also dont think that focus/emphasis on one single element is a good trend in figure skating.

    Why I value young skaters opinion that much is because, young skaters, when they speak they tend to speak straight from their mind. and they are the ones who is learning figure skating and will be the future of figure skating. they knows figure skating way more than general fans. who is likely to be biased by personal taste or patriotism.

    I am glad most young skaters now list Yuna as their idol, so we could expect to see more skaters with better technique and dance with the music perfectly in the future just like their idol Yuna does. This is really a better direction for figure skating than just learn cheated technique when still young, try to land that triple a.s.a.p regardless one's own pace/capability.

    And who know, perhaps with better technique as their foundation we may have more total package lady skaters in the future who can also do a perfect 3A.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    My point is clear I don't think her 3A quality/consistency is good enough to earn her the greatest and be her legacy. Apparently, there are ladies out there does better quality 3A then hers. I also dont think that focus/emphasis on one single element is a good trend in figure skating.
    I highly doubt that anyone considers Mao one of the greats based solely on her 3A and I don't believe that there has been such an opinion expressed in this thread. It has more to do with her longevity/medals/style/impact on the sport in Japan and elsewhere than with one single jump. If this were all about the 3A, then Ludmila Nelidina would also be considered a great skater.

    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    Why I value young skaters opinion that much is because, young skaters, when they speak they tend to speak straight from their mind. and they are the ones who is learning figure skating and will be the future of figure skating. they knows figure skating way more than general fans. who is likely to be biased by personal taste or patriotism.
    That is one explanation. Another one might be that their opinion simply coincides with yours in this case and people usually value opinions that reinforce their own.

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