Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!
Again, you are missing the point, skateluvr.

If you declare that "Yuna doesn't move me", etc. etc., then, while I will definitely think that you have the aesthetic and musical sensitivity of a doorknob, and while it is uncertain if I would, or would not, choose to waste oxygen in arguing with you, I will, nevertheless, certainly concede your right to say it.

However, if you purport to represent the views of large bodies (majorities, no less) of people, by spewing such tripe such as the premise that Yuna doesn't move people, or that "people" were only giving her a standing ovation for her technical merits, or only applauding for her jumps alone, then these are in the way of propositions claiming to be fact, for which the unwritten etiquette of discussion boards generally expects some factual support.

Moreover, the scope of your deeply eccentric claims (i.e. they involve, by clear implication, majorities of very large bodies of people, at least in the thousands, in the case of the London audience, and even larger populations, in the case of your claims involving some sort of global skating consensus) require something more than "Toller Cranston said so".

Firstly, Toller is, IMHO (see? that's how these things are done), more than a little eccentric and cantankerous himself, at times. Second, your extraordinary claim involves the viewpoints of thousands of spectators, not just Toller Cranston. Have you done surveys, formal or informal, of the populations in question, or otherwise seen evidence whose breadth matches that of your claims? If you have, then you can knock me down with a feather.

(On a sidenote, I will even go out on a limb with a claim of my own: for every lukewarm comment from a Toller Cranston that you can find with regard to Yuna, I can find at least three commentators of at least equal prominence who hold the opposite opinion. Wanna try it? ;))

The issue, it seems to me, is that you cannot help yourself from overreaching, leaping from personal opinion/judgment to a claim, without any credible evidence whatsoever, that vast bodies of people, World Championship audiences, or even the larger balance of global audiences, share your views on Yuna's aesthetic qualities. There are scientific terms for this, and they are generally not flattering.

The preponderence of the prima facie evidence strongly suggests the exact opposite, in my view. And I would be happy to share that evidence in more detail, should you so wish it.

(As for the original topic: I've already offered my views, and I don't particularly wish to comment on most of the discussion that follows).
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
A bit of perspective---

In an article about Toller Cranston's exhibition in Museum London:

Of course, easily the biggest art show in town is at The ARTS Project, where more than a dozen London artists were given figure skates to transform into art and signed by some of the world’s biggest names in figure skating, including Canada’s Patrick Chan and reigning world, Olympic and Canadian champion ice dancer Tessa Virtue and Japan’s Yuna Kim, to name a few.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/12/figure-skating-is-the-theme-at-several-galleries

:laugh:

See? Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, it's all kind of a blur for many people.

And poor Scott Moir who has been completely erased from historical memory!
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Toller WAS in fact a great artist both on and off (is) the ice. That certainly helps to sustain his impression on fans of the sport and his artistry. For some other skaters, not having an association beyond their medals may make it tougher
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
I do not see your point. Clearly people here agree Yuna is No.1 and Mao is nobody compared to Yuna's brilliant career so there is no rivalry between them.

Um, no. Mao is not nobody when compared to anyone. Maybe you are though. I mean if you wanna stoop to insults. lol.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I do not see your point. Clearly people here agree Yuna is No.1 and Mao is nobody compared to Yuna's brilliant career so there is no rivalry between them.

>When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
What makes you think that? As kindly informed by Korean fans above, there are many younger skaters in Korea who are inspired by Queen Yuna-Kim. Also there will still be some other Japanese skaters who might not be so bad as you think. I'm just curious.

Even when I thought this thread couldnt get any worst than you called mao a nobody. Google mao because you obiously dont know anything about her. Is trolling accepted in this board now?
By the way name the posters who said Mao is a nobody.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Oh for crying out loud. Here, I'll summarize this "discussion":

Yuna fans: Mao sucks, she's nothing special, Queen Yuna forevers!!!!!!11 She is the greatest.
Maobots: Yuna sucks, she's not memorable, Mao does cooler things, you are all jealous haterz.

Everyone else: Oh go away. Are you even aware that other skaters exist?

GS needs to ban bots or at least confine them to the fanfest threads.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
I wish bots were as classy as Yuna or Mao, hope they will inspire fans too, not only young skaters. :p
 

Crystallize

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Oh for crying out loud. Here, I'll summarize this "discussion":

Yuna fans: Mao sucks, she's nothing special, Queen Yuna forevers!!!!!!11 She is the greatest.
Maobots: Yuna sucks, she's not memorable, Mao does cooler things, you are all jealous haterz.

Everyone else: Oh go away. Are you even aware that other skaters exist?

GS needs to ban bots or at least confine them to the fanfest threads.

Actually, in this thread, I'm not seeing anyone who says that Yuna sucks. However, I'm seeing quite a number of people who are discrediting Mao in every way possible. This thread is supposed to be about the skaters who'll be remembered as among the greats, not who is the greatest. :rolleye: It's not shocking anymore though. This is practically expected in every thread when either of their names are mentioned.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I wish bots were as classy as Yuna or Mao, hope they will inspire fans too, not only young skaters. :p
Very true. Mao and Yuna are both wonderful and classy competitors and people, and their fans would do well to follow their example.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't think anyone else has won more than four.

Plushenko won Cup of Russia (8 times :) ), Trophee Lalique, NHK, Skate Canada, and Bofrost, along with the GP final. In his only appearance at Skate America, a fourteen-year-old Evgeni finished second to Todd Eldredge.

Yagudin won Cup of Russia, Lalique, Sparkassen, Skate America, and Skate Canada, and the GP final. He never competed in NHK. (Cup of China started in 2003, replacing the German event.)
 
Last edited:

thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
.... people were standing for a great clean technical skate.... YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone....

It's been obvious for some time that you hate to accept the realities when it comes to Kim, also that you are pretty determined in presenting your opinion as if it's a fact or a consensus view. The fact that you keep doing it tells that you are well aware that the general perception is exactly the opposite of what you want to believe. But your hollow repetition won't change anything.

Can't help but imagine what a nightmare it must have been for you, to witness Kim winning again and again, and getting showered by accolades time after time, for quite a loooong time now.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Plushenko won Cup of Russia (8 times :) ), Trophee Lalique, NHK, Skate Canada, and Bofrost, along with the GP final. In his only appearance at Skate America, a fourteen-year-old Evgeni finished second to Todd Eldredge.

Yagudin won Cup of Russia, Lalique, Sparkassen, Skate America, and Skate Canada, and the GP final. He never competed in NHK.

Yes, they won 14, respectively 22 gold medals in the GP series. :bow::jaw:
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Plushenko won Cup of Russia (8 times :) ), Trophee Lalique, NHK, Skate Canada, and Bofrost, along with the GP final. In his only appearance at Skate America, a fourteen-year-old Evgeni finished second to Todd Eldredge.

Yagudin won Cup of Russia, Lalique, Sparkassen, Skate America, and Skate Canada, and the GP final. He never competed in NHK.
I meant among active skaters - Plushenko is still active, but he didn't win two of the current GPs and will not be adding new GP titles to his list of achievements.

Active skaters with four include Yuna Kim (Skate America, Cup of Russia, TEB, CoC), Davis/White (Skate Canada, Skate America, CoR, NHK), Nobunari Oda (TEB, CoC, NHK, Skate America), Pang/Tong (CoC, CoR, NHK, Skate America) and Miki Ando (CoC, CoR, Skate America, NHK).
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I meant among active skaters - Plushenko is still active, but he didn't win two of the current GPs and will not be adding new GP titles to his list of achievements.

Active skaters with four include Yuna Kim (Skate America, Cup of Russia, TEB, CoC), Davis/White (Skate Canada, Skate America, CoR, NHK), Nobunari Oda (TEB, CoC, NHK, Skate America), Pang/Tong (CoC, CoR, NHK, Skate America) and Miki Ando (CoC, CoR, Skate America, NHK).

Well, it seems feasible to me that Davis/White could easily win TEB and CoC next year and get the Gram Slam title. It would be a first for a dance team. :)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ But they will probably be invited to Skate America if they don't retire, so they won't get both of the other two.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
^ But they will probably be invited to Skate America if they don't retire, so they won't get both of the other two.

Ah, well, in that case, I guess they will need to stay at least another two more years after Sochi. ;)

I guess that's what makes getting the Grand Slam elusive. Skaters (from host countries) can expect to get only one assignment outside their home country per year, and so you have to stay on the top for five years at the very least.

Conversely, I suppose it would be easier for a skater from a country not hosting the Grand Prix to win the Grand Slam.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Actually, in this thread, I'm not seeing anyone who says that Yuna sucks. However, I'm seeing quite a number of people who are discrediting Mao in every way possible. This thread is supposed to be about the skaters who'll be remembered as among the greats, not who is the greatest. :rolleye: It's not shocking anymore though. This is practically expected in every thread when either of their names are mentioned.

Agree Crystallize. Please dont blame Mao fans about this. There is not one comment on this thread from a mao fan saying Yuna sucks. Contrary, Mao fans had no problems proclaming Yuna Kim as great. However, unfortuntatly some ungracious who act as if they are Yuna fans are ungracious and it pains them to complement Mao about anything. Yuna is classy and gracious, she be will ashame of some of her fans here.

Find a comment from a Mao fans calling Yuna Kim a nobody in this thread.
 

bebevia

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
New game for everyone. How many of the all-time great skaters that appeared in the last part of the show can you name?
All females, 1/2 males!
maybe more if I could see their faces clearer, but that means I still don't know them enough to instantly recognize.
 
Last edited:
Top