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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #196
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I'm not sure, but based on the multitude of threads the somehow become all about these two... I think it must be something like that movie "Highlander."

    "There can be only one."
    then maybe it should just be none? because it's really a downer to have a thread turn sour just because fans have nothing better to do than tear each other down.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    Nobody attacks different opinions. I am sure everyone on this forum knows how you think of YuNa. I think it is enough. Is it really necessary to visit every YuNa thread and keep repeating your subjective view as if it were an objective opinion?
    Cosmos, you are the uber uber. And may I point out THIS IS NOT AN YUNA THREAD. AND TELLING OTHER POSTERS WHOSE OPINION YOU DO NOT LIKE , LIKE A SCHOOL MARM, ENOUGH! You have no right and it is rude, I single no one out. My opinions are a valid as yours, and perhaps moreso as I do not just pop up in "YuNa" threads. I may ask, will you even watch or bother to post when Yuna retires? Likely not. You seem interested in one skater and it is more like a bot than a general FS fan. I like YuNa for her strengths. The dfference is I don't go gaga for Gold or Wags or any American skater. I am not just for my own group.

    I am sorry many have said she does not move them and we understand why that is. With time maturity etc, we may see some moving skates. I hate to use Mao as she is not beloved in Korea, but watch her "Jupiter" exhibition. Mao has known defeat and loss. It chages the heart strings. You simply cannot tolerate any criticism of YuNa. I do not go to a fan fest thread and tell flaws as I see them. That would be wrong, but we are discussing subjective stuff, and in a respectful way.

    Again, please remember this is not a fan fest thread, and it is not ALL ABOUT YUNA. I look forward to your equally ardent theads re some other skater. This is tedious. If YuNa were a skater from another era, we might see her work on her line, flexibility, turnout. One point I made was that things I love about ladies singles are no longer valued in this system, so why should she worry about it I guess? It is a shame, I think.

    These things make an "artistic" impression." I invite you to watch the pro skates of Paul Wylie. That is my idea of perfection. You can have yours but don't tell other posters where when and what they can post. Bad form and not allowed in the guideline, forthat matter.

    I have a balanced, accurate view of YuNa, a skater I admire in many ways. I admit she deserves the moniker "great skater" based on longevity, special talents and competitive record. Now what more do you want?

    As for Mao, she is a butterfly, but her problems may eclipse her inclusion into the discussion 20 years from now. Katarina Witt was a great skater and competitor and unbeatable in her day. Was she the best skater around? I don't think so, but based on the three criteria most use, she deserves "great" as well. For the 3rd time, I suggest we not include a skater in our subjective list of greats until the career is done.

    I suspect if YuNa falls off her podium to third, she may be dropped. Another skater I used to cringe at, has to be called "great" based on longevity, jumping ability (esp impt for men). and 3 medals in 3 successive Olympics. Now many fans don't care for his choreo, his outfits an sometimes his swagger, but based on what he has achieved, a gold and two silver O medals, that alone is amazing. So while I much preferred his nemesis in skating, (Yagudin)- Evgeni has already earned "great" for me, even if he comes in 6th at Sochi.

    If skating is more sport, then one can look at speed, jumps, consistency. But there are skaters who connect well and the PERFORMANCE is remembered for years. There are few skaters that can do this consistently. Michele kwan is great to most fans (American anyway) not just fo 7 triple program year in and year out. Some of her skates were very moving. In 6.0 Lyra matches up for millions to any 6.0 single LP ever skated.

    G& G moved people with their love and beauty, esp in their SOI skates. These are the programs people remember. Music choice is key. Pink Panther doesn't make you weep but Schindler's list does. YuNa is not a very emotive skater. When she fnally shedtears of relief in Vancouver, commet wa "she's human after all." I imagine her skate 'Homage to Korea' left millions weeping. Their starlet/thei anthem.

    Why does it bother you that her flaws are noticed? You see hr as flawlss, I guess. But let others have their opinion. There are many other great skaters who have finished their careers SO let us perhaps maybe include some of them.

    Besides Torvill/Dean, I wonder who else is considered great? I concede Grisuk/Platov meet ALL criteria yet I never liked them half as well as Usova /Zhulin. It is all subjective. imagine trying to judge this "sport." Now there is a messy business!!!

  3. #198
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    I wonder if 20 years from now threads will still turn in to Mao vs. YuNa threads? If so then we'll know for sure that they're both legends.

    I wanted to say something about the youtube views so I'll just go with this one...
    - Most people in non English speaking worlds like China, Korea and probably Japan don't use youtube, they have localised version of these vids services. What does the viewing stats tell?
    Without a doubt Koreans definitely use youtube.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by malo42 View Post
    I wonder if 20 years from now threads will still turn in to Mao vs. YuNa threads? If so then we'll know for sure that they're both legends.
    does that mean every ladies skater who ever bested Kwan is a legend? because those wars never go away either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    does that mean every ladies skater who ever bested Kwan is a legend? because those wars never go away either.
    Oh I don't know are any one of them talked about as much as Mao?

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by malo42 View Post
    Oh I don't know are any one of them talked about as much as Mao?
    when it was happening? yeah it was just as brutal... it takes about a decade for it to start to die down to where it's not EVERY thread...

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    does that mean every ladies skater who ever bested Kwan is a legend?
    I don't know about Tara and Irina, but you gotta give it up for Josee Chouinard at the 2000 Canadian Open.

    (What?! I was going to give a link. Can you believe this program is not on You Tube?)

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know about Tara and Irina, but you gotta give it up for Josee Chouinard at the 2000 Canadian Open.

    (What?! I was going to give a link. Can you believe this program is not on You Tube?)
    You read my mind, MM! I was just on youtube trying to find the programs Josee used to beat Kwan! Guess I need to find my tape and put in on Youtube!

    ETA - Kwan and her fans did not take that loss very well.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I am sorry many have said she dos not move them and we understand why that is.
    Oh, lord, this thread is a trainwreck, but seriously? There are opinions and then there are lies. You have a right to an opinion that Yu-Na doesn't move you. Fine. I have no problem with that. Newsflash: a skater's greatness isn't defined by their ability to "move" skateluvr on Goldenskate.com.

    But you offer zero evidence for the complaint that there is "no real connection with audience." Who are the "many" who have said that she does not move them and who is the "we" that you are talking about? LOL! And why have you conveniently ignored the many standing ovations by the audiences (including an epic one at the most recent 2013 Worlds), the skating commentators who marveled at Yu-Na, the compliments by former skating champions, the young skaters who cite Yu-Na as an inspiration, all in favor of a complaint with very little support? None of that matters! Skateluvr has decreed that Yu-Na doesn't move anyone, therefore Yu-Na cannot be considered great.

    Really, skateluvr, you would tell someone who was leaping out of their seat to applaud Yu-Na's performance 15-20 seconds before it was over at 2013 Worlds, "Most say that she doesn't move them, and we understand why that is." You don't have a "balanced, accurate" view of YuNa. You have your opinions and a right to them, but you don't support your arguments in a way that indicates you are balanced, objective, reasonable, or even logical.

    You want moving? I'll show you moving. Watch this video. Watch it from the beginning to the end. And marvel at how artists immortalized Yu-Na's epic 2010 Olympic performances. Performances that didn't move you, but CLEARLY moved and inspired other people.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ZuiibAPo#t=74s

    Who's that skater? Oh, some anonymous skater who never gave a single performance that people will remember. Funny that they chose to immortalize that skater's performance over anyone else's from the 2010 Olympics, when they could have immortalized V/M, or Rochette's. The fact that Yu-Na's performances inspired another group of artists to create that work of art speaks volumes about her greatness, more than this little squabble on GS ever could.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    You read my mind, MM! I was just on youtube trying to find the programs Josee used to beat Kwan! Guess I need to find my tape and put in on Youtube!

    ETA - Kwan and her fans did not take that loss very well.
    Well of course we didn't. Chouinard fell on a triple Lutz, while Michelle was meh but clean. The announcers mentioned something about interpreting the music, telling a delightful story, etc., but I think it was rampant Chouinardflation in Canada.

    By the way, there was a little feature after that and if I remember the story correctly, Josee was actually all but retired by that time and was teaching school. When she came back with a gold medal all her students swarmed around her like a hero and she used the experience to teach a lesson about never give up, challenge the odds, remember David and Goliath, etc., etc.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-03-2013 at 09:14 PM.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well of course we didn't. Chouinard fell on a triple Lutz, while Michelle was meh but clean. The announcers mentioned something about interpreting the music, telling a delightful story, etc., but I think it was rampant Chouinardflation in Canada.

    By the way, there was a little feature after that and if I remember the story correctly, Josee was actually all but retired by that time and was teaching school. When she came back with a gold medal all her students swarmed around her like a hero and she used the experience to teach a lesson about never give up, challenge the odds, remember David and Goliath, etc., etc.
    if by teaching you mean coaching - she made it a point to give a shout out to her skating students. She still teaches as the Granite Club (according to her LinkedIn account).

    and Josee skated with heart - something Kwan could only dream of!

  12. #207
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    New game for everyone. How many of the all-time great skaters that appeared in the last part of the show can you name?

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever), she's the first Asian lady to win multiple world championships, a Guinness World Record for her Triple Axels. Yes she only has two World medals, but apart from Kim's gold- they have more or less the same amount of medals. I would definitely credit that as a GREAT career. Asada has never finished lower than top 10 in the World. If she doesn't win the OGM at Sochi, people surely will still remember her. Not only that, she has a MASSIVE following around the world. If that isn't a great career, I don't know what is. I respect your opinion, but I find it a little too obtuse.
    Ok maybe I was a bit harsh, but I was simply stating my opinion. I appreciate that you respect my opinion and I respect yours as well . I know that she has a huge following in the skating world. I love watching Mao too

  14. #209
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!

  15. #210
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    Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism.
    Toller Cranston also thought Kurt Browning wasn't a great skater and would never be legendary (I'm paraphrasing a paraphrase from Browning's autobiography). Toller is not the be all end all of skating opinion.

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