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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #211
    Custom Title EricRohmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I think both young zijun and young yuna when asked about idol, they really didnot think that much about history or politics, they just liked their idols's skating. especially, when young skaters list idol outside their own nationality, it almost always means that they purely love their idols' skating.
    Agree.
    Here is a Korean article published in January 2000.
    http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7228/icingg.jpg

    [Yuna Kim is in the third grade of Sinheung elementary school. (...snip...)
    Kim says that her favorite skater is Michelle Kwan who skates well and her dream is becoming a good skater then becoming a skating teacher.]

    This was before Kwan gets the third WC title and becomes a legend like now.
    Anyway, this shows how special Kwan is and how consistent (& pure ) Yuna's admiring Kwan is.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!
    How do you know that? Do you read mind?
    Since you brought in Mao, did Toller say Mao moves him? or Caro or anybody else? In my observation. Mao moves less people than YuNa does. And, many many people said so. I heard lots of criticisms on MK's performance, too. Does that mean she did not move many people? Yes, you have right to post. But, you are repeating the same story again and again, Your point has been taken very clearly. I see no point of your repeating. Yes, I am uber uber fan of YuNa. But, do I visit every Mao-related thread to simply criticize her? But, you do. You must be uber uber hater of YuNa.

    Do not post your biased opinion as if it were truth.

  3. #213
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    If we're asking about long-term horizons about who'll be "remembered" as great, you should listen to young aspiring skaters themselves, as I think they have the bigger influence in passing down tales of legends and memories of great performances. They often speak of their idols--Mao of Midori Ito and Yuna of Michelle Kwan--which tends to keep these great skaters from the previous era fresh in the mind of young fans who may not even have been old enough to be aware of them. Inspiration is one of the biggest test of greatness, and no matter how many times some people crow about not being "moved" by a certain skater, the fact is many fans and actual figure skaters are being moved--not just emotionally as a passive spectator, but to pursue their goals and dreams. If that's not "moving" people with your skating, nothing is.

  4. #214
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    If we're asking about long-term horizons about who'll be "remembered" as great, you should listen to young aspiring skaters themselves, as I think they have the bigger influence in passing down tales of legends and memories of great performances. They often speak of their idols--Mao of Midori Ito and Yuna of Michelle Kwan--which tends to keep these great skaters from the previous era fresh in the mind of young fans who may not even have been old enough to be aware of them. Inspiration is one of the biggest test of greatness, and no matter how many times some people crow about not being "moved" by a certain skater, the fact is many fans and actual figure skaters are being moved--not just emotionally as a passive spectator, but to pursue their goals and dreams. If that's not "moving" people with your skating, nothing is.

  5. #215
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    In Dance, I'm not sure that V/M and D/W will be remembered as well as Torvill & Dean and Grishuk & Platov are. If V/M wins second OGM, maybe (but I don't think that's going to happen).
    Han Yan, if he keeps his jumps and develops skating skills to match Patrick's, maybe.
    Julia, if she keeps her incredible flexibility and further improves her skating skills and learns to jump big, maybe.

  6. #216
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    The rivalry between Yuna and Mao does not exist, it was invented by Koreans and Japaneses, as part of their traditional hating. Yuna ans Mao are different skaters with different styles, each one with her career and accomplishments. When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
    What bothers me is when they start to bring 1000000 arguments why Yuna is great and Mao isn't or the other way around, or try to convince me that the likes and dislikes on youtube don't come from Asians, like the whole world would be interested only in Yuna and Mao.

  7. #217
    Adiós Melon's Avatar
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    My vote goes to Patrick Chan.

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    Rivalry?

    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    The rivalry between Yuna and Mao does not exist, it was invented by Koreans and Japaneses, as part of their traditional hating. Yuna ans Mao are different skaters with different styles, each one with her career and accomplishments. When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
    What bothers me is when they start to bring 1000000 arguments why Yuna is great and Mao isn't or the other way around, or try to convince me that the likes and dislikes on youtube don't come from Asians, like the whole world would be interested only in Yuna and Mao.
    I do not see your point. Clearly people here agree Yuna is No.1 and Mao is nobody compared to Yuna's brilliant career so there is no rivalry between them.

    >When they retire 99,9% of their fans will stop watching FS.
    What makes you think that? As kindly informed by Korean fans above, there are many younger skaters in Korea who are inspired by Queen Yuna-Kim. Also there will still be some other Japanese skaters who might not be so bad as you think. I'm just curious.

  9. #219
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    That's discrediting Asada a little too much. She now has a Grand Prix Grand Slam (the first ever)
    In case it hasn't been pointed out yet, Asada is not the first to win all the GPs, though she is the first singles skater to have done so. Shen and Zhao were the first to win all six GPs (as well as the GPF and the now-discontinued Bofrost Cup, see here). S/Z and Mao were joined this past weekend by Savchenko/Szolkowy, whose CoC title rounded out their GP collection. Brian Joubert chased the GP record for a while but never managed to win CoC. I don't think anyone else has won more than four.

    Back on topic, I like Mao and Yuna. I don't understand why so many fans think these are mutually exclusive opinions, seeing as how they are such different skaters that it's possible to appreciate each for her strengths and accomplishments.

    I think it's too soon to say that any current skaters will be remembered among the greats, with the exception of Evgeni Plushenko. Mao, Yuna, the top two ice dance teams, Takahashi and S/S also strike me as possibilities. Among skaters who retired in recent years, I'd add Lambiel and S/Z.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post

    Back on topic, I like Mao and Yuna. I don't understand why so many fans think these are mutually exclusive opinions, seeing as how they are such different skaters that it's possible to appreciate each for her strengths and accomplishments.
    Nationalistic bias, I've explained it in my previous post. If Yuna were Japanese, Koreans would say that she is a bad skater.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Jaylee, people were standing for a great clean technical skate. I agree it was a great skate. Already said it. Toller Cranston said many in the skating world have this criticism. She will keep skating. Watch Shizuka's Yugao. Non competitive skating allows for more beauty. I am hardly the only one who has said this. Her best skate is yet to come, maybe not in competition. She was returning and she skated very well. YuNa is applauded for huge jumps alone. No one was close at that Worlds. Sorry, I really don't get intimidated by snarky posts like yours. You can like or adore whomever you wish. Have fun!
    Again, you are missing the point, skateluvr.

    If you declare that "Yuna doesn't move me", etc. etc., then, while I will definitely think that you have the aesthetic and musical sensitivity of a doorknob, and while it is uncertain if I would, or would not, choose to waste oxygen in arguing with you, I will, nevertheless, certainly concede your right to say it.

    However, if you purport to represent the views of large bodies (majorities, no less) of people, by spewing such tripe such as the premise that Yuna doesn't move people, or that "people" were only giving her a standing ovation for her technical merits, or only applauding for her jumps alone, then these are in the way of propositions claiming to be fact, for which the unwritten etiquette of discussion boards generally expects some factual support.

    Moreover, the scope of your deeply eccentric claims (i.e. they involve, by clear implication, majorities of very large bodies of people, at least in the thousands, in the case of the London audience, and even larger populations, in the case of your claims involving some sort of global skating consensus) require something more than "Toller Cranston said so".

    Firstly, Toller is, IMHO (see? that's how these things are done), more than a little eccentric and cantankerous himself, at times. Second, your extraordinary claim involves the viewpoints of thousands of spectators, not just Toller Cranston. Have you done surveys, formal or informal, of the populations in question, or otherwise seen evidence whose breadth matches that of your claims? If you have, then you can knock me down with a feather.

    (On a sidenote, I will even go out on a limb with a claim of my own: for every lukewarm comment from a Toller Cranston that you can find with regard to Yuna, I can find at least three commentators of at least equal prominence who hold the opposite opinion. Wanna try it? )

    The issue, it seems to me, is that you cannot help yourself from overreaching, leaping from personal opinion/judgment to a claim, without any credible evidence whatsoever, that vast bodies of people, World Championship audiences, or even the larger balance of global audiences, share your views on Yuna's aesthetic qualities. There are scientific terms for this, and they are generally not flattering.

    The preponderence of the prima facie evidence strongly suggests the exact opposite, in my view. And I would be happy to share that evidence in more detail, should you so wish it.

    (As for the original topic: I've already offered my views, and I don't particularly wish to comment on most of the discussion that follows).

  12. #222
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    A bit of perspective---

    In an article about Toller Cranston's exhibition in Museum London:

    Of course, easily the biggest art show in town is at The ARTS Project, where more than a dozen London artists were given figure skates to transform into art and signed by some of the world’s biggest names in figure skating, including Canada’s Patrick Chan and reigning world, Olympic and Canadian champion ice dancer Tessa Virtue and Japan’s Yuna Kim, to name a few.
    http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/12/fi...eral-galleries



    See? Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, it's all kind of a blur for many people.

    And poor Scott Moir who has been completely erased from historical memory!

  13. #223
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    Toller WAS in fact a great artist both on and off (is) the ice. That certainly helps to sustain his impression on fans of the sport and his artistry. For some other skaters, not having an association beyond their medals may make it tougher

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by pec0 View Post
    I do not see your point. Clearly people here agree Yuna is No.1 and Mao is nobody compared to Yuna's brilliant career so there is no rivalry between them.
    Um, no. Mao is not nobody when compared to anyone. Maybe you are though. I mean if you wanna stoop to insults. lol.

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    Nevermind.

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