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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #256
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinspread View Post
    It's been obvious for some time that you hate to accept the realities when it comes to Kim, also that you are pretty determined in presenting your opinion as if it's a fact or a consensus view. The fact that you keep doing it tells that you are well aware that the general perception is exactly the opposite of what you want to believe. But your hollow repetition won't change anything.

    Can't help but imagine what a nightmare it must have been for you, to witness Kim winning again and again, and getting showered by accolades time after time, for quite a loooong time now.
    What a stupid assumption.

  2. #257
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Robeye, you have the sensitivity of a lump of coal. I said she's not known for emotionally gut wrenching performances, and you decided to insult me. The yunabots are here and as usual, insulting anyone who has a criticism. I attacked no poster but the bots are breaking the rules. Not worth it-this thread was hijacked and again the racial tensions come up.

    I'm done. If we have to put up with this Mao hate and Queen baloney, it will ruin the Oly season. Isn't there a bot board for fans of Yuna you can all go to? Please-go-enjoy each other. Mao Asada is nobody? We are all nobodies then.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Robeye, you have the sensitivity of a lump of coal. I said she's not known for emotionally gut wrenching performances, and you decided to insult me. The yunabots are here and as usual, insulting anyone who has a criticism. I attacked no poster but the bots are breaking the rules. Not worth it-this thread was hijacked and again the racial tensions come up.

    I'm done. If we have to put up with this Mao hate and Queen baloney, it will ruin the Oly season. Isn't there a bot board for fans of Yuna you can all go to? Please-go-enjoy each other. Mao Asada is nobody? We are all nobodies then.
    Aren't you the manipulative one.

    What I called you on was not with regard to the nature of your individual opinions. I have seen them before, ad nauseum, and have managed to pass them by without comment. It is that you emphatically represented, as fact, that Yuna receives standing ovations or applause from crowds of thousands solely for "technical merits" or "jumps".

    Logically, I can infer one of two things: a) that you lack facilities for reason, or b) that you were deliberately trolling to get a rise out of a particular Yuna fan, or perhaps her fans in general. I do not believe that you completely lack rational facilities. In fact, I believe that, in possessing rational faculties, you yourself knew that your statements were highly improbable on their face. I can therefore only conclude that it is b), that you were engaged in a deliberate act of sly, hit-and-run trolling, hoping to get away with it unscathed. Even now, you are busy trying to give your words an ex post facto spin in order to disguise all of this.

    Are you familiar with Joe McCarthy, skateluvr? As a U.S. Senator, he, too, made sweeping statements of fact, that there were Communists in high places, and even claimed he had names. After creating great frenzy and much misery in this country, he was finally pressed for supporting evidence. When he was unable to provide it, he was politically finished. I would like to think he would have been finished even if he later claimed that his statements had merely been his personal opinions. You see, skateluvr, in my worldview, the difference between a fact and an opinion is one worth protecting, even if the issue at hand is not quite so grandiose. The reason being, that if the distinction between fact and opinion is not maintained, then all discussions, whatever their particular subject matter, will inevitably slide into undifferentiated muck.

    And now you are waving the bloody shirt of "racial tensions", and playing the tribune of Mao's honor? Really? Seriously?

    What I find especially galling and amusing is that, while you are engaged in these shenanigans publicly, you are simultaneously sending me a PM claiming that you "want no enmity".

    I have said my piece, and was willing to leave it alone, but not if you keep trying to justify yourself.

  4. #259
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    To become "one of the greatest" has nothing to do with the number of medals or titles to win.
    It is about an exceptional, unique, timeless quality which in some way or another brought something great into this sport and left its legacy for the future.
    (Janet Lynn and Toller Cranston had never win anything big, but they are certainly in this list).

    There are MANY eras (not to mention Olympic quadrennials) which did NOT give any "one of the greatest" figure skaters even if the Oympic medals always have been awarded.

    I think that this present period is extremly lucky, because there are some "greatest ever" sportmen competing.
    Not even one.

    These are in my opinion:

    Yu-Na Kim ( cold or not, but THIS crystal clear quality combined with this easyness never has been experienced before and since)

    Mao Asada ( even if she won only a single bronze in the last 3 Worlds), because of the elegance, easyness and beauty of her skate- I think NOT because of her 3Axels for sure, it is only an added value.

    Virtue/Moir .A completely new level of their discipline was surely created by them. They had a great influence (already)
    on the others (included D/W). For me D/W aren't in this category, even if they win. Perfectionism is enough
    to win with some background but not enough to be "all time great". In the other way around: the level of
    the competition with D/W made V/M an even greater one.

    All the other fantastic skaters of nowdays ( Chan, Lipnitskaya, Takahashi, Joubert, Kostner, Hanyu, Volosozhar/Trankov, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Pang/Tong) are great, winning or loosing a particular competition, but not (some of them maybe not YET) in THAT league.

    Maybe it is strange but the only team I have a feeling "maybe" can do it, staying and having great propgrammes with their unique and interesting style is Weaver/Poje, or Lipnitskaya with some much better quality (not rotation, but QUALITY) of her jumps, which can happen. Some other great quality of hers are already visible one's.

  5. #260
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    DW can't dance.
    I agree... They are current favourites, the annointed ones in the CoP era. But I don't think a random fan would look up their videos 20 years down the road and think, wow, that was transcendental or exceedingly beautiful. There's just nothing "all-time" about them IMO.

    I believe Stephane Lambiel will be remembered as one of the greatest artistic skaters. The fact that promising young skaters like Denis Ten and Tatsuki Machida, and even his contemporaries like Chan and Takahashi all look up to him and have spoken openly about how they wish to skate like him speaks great volume.

  6. #261
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    I don't think Lambiel deserves to be singled out without Jeffrey Buttle - the forgotten one it seems. But they are the impetus to Dai and Chan.

  7. #262
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Buttle will be known as the ultimate CoP master for his intentional fall on the quad in 2006 that got him the bronze.

  8. #263
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I hope all of these skaters are remembered in the future. Skating is a tough, tough sport. We get off easy because we can criticize their skating from behind a computer. Trust me when I say that it is the "easy-looking" stuff that is actually tough. Kudos to all of them!

    Off-Topic-- To make your experience here enjoyable, please review our guidelines! http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?18607

  9. #264
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Davis and White's career record is reason enough for them to be remembered.

    They are the only couple to win the GPF four times. They haven't lost a GP event since 2008 (five years!!). They are the first American pair to win the World Championship and do it twice.

    I don't love Grishuk and Platov, but I don't downplay their dominance from 1994-1998 in Ice Dance.

    As to weather people will go back and look at D/W's programs. I think they will. Die Fieldermaus comes to mind. So does Giselle. Heck, people still talk about their Samson and Delilah program even now.

  10. #265
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    Sure Evan will be remembered for being the competitior without a quad and without great artistry or skating skills. T and M will be remembered for skating cleanly but without passion. Gritschuk and Platov will be rememered for 2 OGM but not being that great technically and Pasha for having an affair with Zhulin which destroyd U and Z's chances for OGM as they could not skate the passionate programs they were known for. Baiul will be remembered for coming out of the mess of Kerrigan and Tonya with an OGM by throwing in a double axel double toe with seconds to spare and despite being cut by the German skater who skates in the reverese directio of most and beating a woman in a $13000 US Vera Wang.

  11. #266
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Davis and White's career record is reason enough for them to be remembered.

    They are the only couple to win the GPF four times. They haven't lost a GP event since 2008 (five years!!). They are the first American pair to win the World Championship and do it twice.

    I don't love Grishuk and Platov, but I don't downplay their dominance from 1994-1998 in Ice Dance.

    As to weather people will go back and look at D/W's programs. I think they will. Die Fieldermaus comes to mind. So does Giselle. Heck, people still talk about their Samson and Delilah program even now.

    Their Bollywood OD was one of the highest viewed videos in countries that aren't big on skating.

    I think at the very least they've solidified their legend status in the US Ice Dance community. Tanith and Ben opened the door, and Meryl and Charlie blew through it.

  12. #267
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Their Bollywood OD was one of the highest viewed videos in countries that aren't big on skating.

    I think at the very least they've solidified their legend status in the US Ice Dance community. Tanith and Ben opened the door, and Meryl and Charlie blew through it.
    Bollywood, duh!

    Yeah, that was a great program, if for nothing else my non-skating friends took note of it. Here's what one of my friends said on FB back then:

    ... is seeing US figure skating to a Bollywood favorite song. wow.
    This was back when Facebook had that who "You are..." statuses.

    Also: http://vancouver2010.blogs.nytimes.c...ith-love/?_r=0

  13. #268
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This was back when Facebook had that who "You are..." statuses.
    is the Bollywood program really that old?! LOL

  14. #269
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    is the Bollywood program really that old?! LOL
    It is four years old! A lot happens in four years. It was before the iPad!

  15. #270
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Their Bollywood OD was one of the highest viewed videos in countries that aren't big on skating.
    I would not cite the high YouTube interest in Davis/White's Bollywood OD (although very cool ) as a reason that they will be remembered as great skaters.

    As you say, many of the YouTube viewers were not skating fans. Although the numbers indicate a strong appreciation for D/W's creativity and authenticity, I don't think they are a barometer of the quality of their ice dancing per se.

    (Off topic: IIRC, the iPad went on the market just after the 2010 Olympics, where presumably many who do not follow skating first laid eyes on D/W's Bollywood number.)

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