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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #46
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Actually, no ice dancers or pairs skaters from this era will be remember for long. Torvill and Dean are the only ice dancers that anyone has ever heard of.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I actually know quite a lot about ice dance (though not Doris level) and have made hundreds of posts here to prove it. I also prefer V/M to D/W generally and have dozens of posts to back that up too. So far, you have only made vague posts pertaining to ice dance perceptions, which you are describing incorrectly. Pardon me if I doubt your vivid ice dance viewership throughout the years and thorough command of the sport.

    That said, I'm done with this one. Must continue to remember not to feed the trolls.

    Not that it's of any importance, but I've been watching ice dancing since the 90s (and even remembering T/D from the 80s). I do know a thing or two about edgework, quality, lines, partnering, etc... And so do many others in the skating world who don't see D/W the wonderful way that you do
    And why so defensive? Who cares if you prefer V/M to D/W? (which I highly doubt, as I've read your posts too, and we both know that's not true ).


    FYI, I don't like to respond to D/W fan posts because stating anything critical of them is dismissed as hateful, trolling, whiny, crazy...Most of them don't seem to want to have an educated discussion about ice dancing, anyways.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Actually, no ice dancers or pairs skaters from this era will be remember for long. Torvill and Dean are the only ice dancers that anyone has ever heard of.
    I agree.

  4. #49
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    I think naming V/M without D/W is riddiculous. Both teams have two World golds each. V/M do have three World silvers as opposed to D/W's two and a bronze, but that bronze is very questionable and only won by 0.04 i.e. nothing. D/W defeated V/M numerous times during the past couple of years and V/M have never managed to beat them at the GPF. So yeah, even if V/M do win in Sochi, D/W will still be remembered as the only ones actually capable of defeating those 2-time Olympic champions. And two Olympic silvers would still be quite an achievement.

    I think it is the rivalry between the teams that will go down in history. I strongly believe these teams are that great because they have each other. They have dominated the world of ice dance for 5 straight years. That alone makes both of them worthy of a place among all time greats and the thing they have been winning golds back-to-back makes it special and fascinating.
    I am not a troll, but could not help noticing:

    In your comparison of resumes, you spell out the medal tallies at Worlds, right down to the 0.04 gap in 2009.
    And yet you make only an oblique reference to Virtue/Moir's Olympic gold vs. Davis/White's Olympic silver -- as if Vancouver were of minor significance in their rivalry.

  5. #50
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ In a way, I think Vancouver is kind of irrelevant to this "rivalry." There was no rivalry in 2010. Virtue and Moir were the best, Davis and White were second best.

    Then Davis and White started getting better. Now? We'll see in February.

  6. #51
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ In a way, I think Vancouver is kind of irrelevant to this "rivalry." There was no rivalry in 2010. Virtue and Moir were the best, Davis and White were second best.

    Then Davis and White started getting better. Now? We'll see in February.
    But ... SimplyLex is the one who thought the results at 2009 Worlds were relevant to her/his post above.

    I would add that Davis/White had defeated Virtue/Moir at the GPF in 2009, only weeks before the 2010 Olympics.
    Both before and after the fact, V/M themselves would not have called their Vancouver gold a slam dunk.

  7. #52
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    How legendary and remembered you are is not just about medals and titles. If Davis & White win the Sochi gold and their 3rd World title they will undoubtably have had a better career than Virtue & Moir, and possibly (although this is less certain) rank higher in the history of ice dancing greats. However Virtue & Moir IMO will always be more remembered and legendary anywhere outside the U.S. They simply are a more beautiful team who have had more memorable programs, and just have impacted to the Worldwide audience more than Davis & White have.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    How legendary and remembered you are is not just about medals and titles. If Davis & White win the Sochi gold and their 3rd World title they will undoubtably have had a better career than Virtue & Moir, and possibly (although this is less certain) rank higher in the history of ice dancing greats. However Virtue & Moir IMO will always be more remembered and legendary anywhere outside the U.S. They simply are a more beautiful team who have had more memorable programs, and just have impacted to the Worldwide audience more than Davis & White have.
    I'm a huge fan of both teams who missed last year's worlds and just watched the long programs. Carmen BLEW ME AWAY!!!!!!! Why was this program disliked/controversial? I thought it was brilliant!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    I'm a huge fan of both teams who missed last year's worlds and just watched the long programs. Carmen BLEW ME AWAY!!!!!!! Why was this program disliked/controversial? I thought it was brilliant!
    Some thought some of the moves were vulgar. I personally found it simply brilliant as well, and vastly undermarked all year. Unfortunately they struggled with the OD all season though, which would have killed their chances of winning over an always perfect D&W anyway.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    I am not a troll, but could not help noticing:

    In your comparison of resumes, you spell out the medal tallies at Worlds, right down to the 0.04 gap in 2009.
    And yet you make only an oblique reference to Virtue/Moir's Olympic gold vs. Davis/White's Olympic silver -- as if Vancouver were of minor significance in their rivalry.
    It is major difference to their careers, but as for the rivalry, well some believe the rivalry didnt even begin until the 2011 Worlds.

    I am not sure if I would agree with that mind you. D&W first beat D&W at Four Continents just before the 2009 Worlds, and nearly beat them for the bronze at the 2009 Worlds. So for me the beginning of 2009 marked the start of their official "rivalry".

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    How legendary and remembered you are is not just about medals and titles. If Davis & White win the Sochi gold and their 3rd World title they will undoubtably have had a better career than Virtue & Moir, and possibly (although this is less certain) rank higher in the history of ice dancing greats. However Virtue & Moir IMO will always be more remembered and legendary anywhere outside the U.S. They simply are a more beautiful team who have had more memorable programs, and just have impacted to the Worldwide audience more than Davis & White have.
    Ice Dancing is probably the only discipline I watch religiously, so my post is concerning more ice dancing than the other disciplines.
    I agree with your statement here (which I've bolded). In my opinion, being remembered as one of the "greats" entails not only winning medals at the most IMPORTANT/BIGGEST events, but (again, my opinion), one of these aspects:

    -innovation that propelled the sport to a newer direction
    -degree of influence on the younger/future generation WORLDWIDE, especially the influence on the several different "schools" of figure skating (ie. NA, British and Soviet)
    -combining both superior technique+artistry to create a trademark style hard to replicate by others
    In other words, I think generally setting yourself apart in some way or another.

    Which is why I don't agree with D/W on this list (among other things, like their lack of quality and their empty,no-dance-holds programs which I'll not go in to). Not only that, but if they were to win an Olympic gold medal, so what? Linichuk/Karponosov have an equal or better record than them, Bestemianova and Bukin (1 Olympic Gold, 1 Olympic silver, 4 World GOLDS, countless silvers etc...).

    Torvill and Dean I think are the only ice dancers who will truly be remembered 100+ years from now.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworthgirl View Post
    I'm a huge fan of both teams who missed last year's worlds and just watched the long programs. Carmen BLEW ME AWAY!!!!!!! Why was this program disliked/controversial? I thought it was brilliant!
    Carmen was choreographically brilliant, but IMHO it was never performed quite up to its potential. The skaters always left a little tenth of a point here and a tenth of a point there on the table. As Pantongfan says, though, it was the short dance where Davis and White won the contest. Virtue and Moir had two level threes, while Davis and White had all level fours. (thats's the CoP! ) And Davis and White did have a charming short dance last year.

    On the other hand, Fledermaus, D&W's free dance the previous year, was also a masterpiece, albeit of a sort directly opposite from the passionate and artistic Carmen, and they lost that year to a so-so V&M. So, what can you do?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Agree with Kim. To be honest, her performances leave me cold, but there is no denying her excellence - never finished off the podium in any competition... that James Bond routine and MONSTROUS record scores to win the 2010 Olympic gold (although I question whether she should have won by THAT margin of points)

    Asada for sure too. Unless someone steps up to the plate, she may be remembered as the last female skater to perform triple axels. So many medals... the first woman to complete the GP grand slam (gold at all GP events)... first to land 3 triple axels in a single competition... many performances that stay in your mind, especially the 2012/2013 season (Mary Poppins exhibition!!!)

    I don't think Virtue and Moir can be added to the list, without Davis and White: I wonder if either team would have reached they heights they have, without the other to compete against?

    Takahashi will surely be remembered for the artistry, expression, passion and personality of his performances, as well as his achievements of course. Mambo!

    I'd say Hanyu is also destined to become one of the greats. He has already delivered the most firey, determined and passionate performance I've ever seen (2012 world's FS), and I will always remember him for that, regardless of what he does in future.

    I also have high hopes for Lipnitskaia. Last year, she was "just another" Russian gymnastic/athletic wunderkind... but this year she has added such elegance, gracefullness, and convincing emotion and expression. Amazing progress, and she has learned to smile. If she can get through growing pains and continue to develop, she is surely destined for superstardom. Also her axel jump is currently very low, I'm sure if she jumped higher she could manage a triple...!
    sadly true. she does not move many people, too introverted, almost too shy to emote or play a character, even. but her technical brilliance/consistency is her card to those monster scores. she is perhaps lived too little of life to be an artist. if she skates many more years of shows, we may see more than her speed, big 3x3's. I love the person as she seems genuine. other than her public ange and sacking of orser, she has seemed humble despite her goddess stature in her country.

    try watching her EX in Vancouver. It gets better after a few watches. I think this was the most transparent and moved I ever saw from her. YuNa has her strong points and CoP and judges love her. I always found her overscored but I think it is needed to see her in person. The speed/huge jumps, and she is packaged well-pretty lady. That was Toller's big criticism-he was not moved. But Joannie stole the show and tears of the world. YuNa was crowned. I never agreed with 20 points over Mao-excessive. But when she is clean, she is unbeatable for sure.

  14. #59
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    Typical skateluvr delusion. Do not post on my thread.

  15. #60
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Kurt Browning.

    Or are we talking just the current crop of skaters?

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