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Thread: Skaters who'll be remembered with time as among the greats

  1. #91
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Really? Search seems broken then. I type "pcs" in the search and get nothing. I type in "scoring" and get 19 random discussion threads, with only one that looks specifically relevant, but still does not explain such things.
    The GoldenSkate forum can be searched also by using Google (or another search engine).
    If you do not know how to limit your search results to the GS forum, see this post in the Feedback section:

    The short post is from months ago, but the easy trick explained there still works, of course.
    I purposely am not copying and pasting the post here -- in order to encourage you to explore other parts of the GS forum. Enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    You are relatively new here, but I hope the longer you are here, you find there are plenty of people who are trying to explain the scores, both TES and PCS.

    ... If you go to the Figure Skating Reference section of this forum (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/for...ing-References) you'll find a lot of interesting and useful information. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The factors for program component scores are set up to maintain the balance between Element Scores and Component Scores, so that one aspect of the performance does not dominate the other. For a short program, you might expect a man (with a quad and a triple Axel) to get TES of 45. If he has a nicely balanced program, he might get 45 in PCS also. ...
    Agree with Mrs. P that the References forum also is a good resource.

    Example:

    gkelly has given some very instructive explanations of scoring. The thread at the following link has helped me:

    So happens that just this week, gkelly gave a great explanation of factoring (see post #10 at the link above), including the desired balance between TES and PCS. If Mathman had not been kind enough to come to your rescue right in this thread, the References section also had the answer for you.

    Agree also that GS has an abundance of extremely knowledgeable members who are very generous about sharing what they know (and/or what they make a point of researching).
    Among those with lots of patience and goodwill are: Mrs. P, Mathman, gkelly, dorispulaski, and CaroLiza_fan. Their names are just a few that came quickly to mind, and you will discover many others.

  2. #92
    skating philosopher
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The GoldenSkate forum can be searched also by using Google (or another search engine).
    If you do not know how to limit your search results to the GS forum, see this post in the Feedback section.

    The short post is from months ago, but the easy trick explained there still works, of course.
    I purposely am not copying and pasting the post here -- in order to encourage you to explore other parts of the GS forum. Enjoy.
    I love that google search trick! Google power searching skills for the win!

  3. #93
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The GoldenSkate forum can be searched also by using Google (or another search engine)…
    I am startled by how often a general search on Google (not site specific) for a figure skating topic turns up a Golden Skate page in the first two or three references.

    I cringe when I think about all those innocent searchers-for-knowledge out there who must be muttering under their breaths, who is this pompous, long-winded idiot Mathman who thinks he knows something about skating?

  4. #94
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I cringe when I think about all those innocent searchers-for-knowledge out there who must be muttering under their breaths, who is this pompous, long-winded idiot Mathman who thinks he knows something about skating?
    Stop reading my mind, dude!

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    Thank you Mrs. P, Mathman and Golden411 - all very helpful!

    (Mrs. P, I was already finding your "Nate Silver-ing" score analyses very informative, and so helpful in understanding scores that may initially seem puzzling - thanks again!)

    PS. American football is not exactly big in this country, but there is some (American) coverage on TV here. I will enjoy it more, now that I know what a "down" is! :-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I'm referring to their win against the Niners earlier this year actually all of their home games... blah!
    Haha...

    Funny enough, it would have been cheaper for me to fly to St. Louis, book a hotel room and go to the Seattle away game then for me to drive to Seattle and watch the home game given the high price of tickets right now.

    So the 12th man isn't only helpful for winning games but in getting more Benjamins.

    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Thank you Mrs. P, Mathman and Golden411 - all very helpful!

    (Mrs. P, I was already finding your "Nate Silver-ing" score analyses very informative, and so helpful in understanding scores that may initially seem puzzling - thanks again!)

    PS. American football is not exactly big in this country, but there is some (American) coverage on TV here. I will enjoy it more, now that I know what a "down" is! :-D
    Glad the analysis was helpful. (Speaking of which, I'm behind!)

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    Of course Kim and Asada are on the rosters! Forget about medals and achievements in the sport (DUH! All of their collective achievements are ASTOUNDING)...just think of the cultural impact they have left by way of figure skating! I mean it's Britney and Christina all over again!

    ...okay maybe that trivialises it a bit, but it makes sense doesn't it? Kim does NOT need 2 OGMs. She has shone the light on figure skating in a country where it was never of credible relevance. Asada has successfully carried the burden of a sustained career and the flag of Japanese skating since her debut in the senior ranks in 2005. Hell, you can even say- she's carrying the burden alone all the way to Sochi. We have Suzuki too, and the rest of the field- but none of them compares to the gargantuan career that Asada has made for herself and her country (in terms of iconic status, she is second to Midori and the rest can go to sleep IMO). Likewise with Kim! Such grace and artistry, these two will leave massive voids in the field after they retire. Their fortunes- having lived their competitive careers alongside each other and ending it at the same time just adds more magic to the legend ^^

    They both may not move all audiences with their performances, but my god they have moved two whole countries. THAT on its own is an achievement.

  8. #98
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Haha...

    Funny enough, it would have been cheaper for me to fly to St. Louis, book a hotel room and go to the Seattle away game then for me to drive to Seattle and watch the home game given the high price of tickets right now.

    So the 12th man isn't only helpful for winning games but in getting more Benjamins.
    That sucks, but it doesn't really surprise me! I've never been to an NFL game before, my cousin goes all the time (his dad used to have seasons tickets in one of the boxes)... I see his pics on facebook and I get jealous (though he takes few pics of the game... mainly just the cheerleaders. *sigh*)

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    Thanks to those of you who gave an explanation of "downs" that I can understand!

    I agree about both Mao and YuNa. Various people have said that great skaters leave the sport better than it was when they came in, and TheCzar's observations support the idea that both Mao and YuNa did just that. I mean, YuNa virtually created the fan base in Korea. And Mao combines artistic delicacy with the distinction of being one of only about six ladies who have ever done a triple axel in competition.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    Of course Kim and Asada are on the rosters! Forget about medals and achievements in the sport (DUH! All of their collective achievements are ASTOUNDING)...just think of the cultural impact they have left by way of figure skating! I mean it's Britney and Christina all over again!

    ...okay maybe that trivialises it a bit, but it makes sense doesn't it? Kim does NOT need 2 OGMs. She has shone the light on figure skating in a country where it was never of credible relevance. Asada has successfully carried the burden of a sustained career and the flag of Japanese skating since her debut in the senior ranks in 2005. Hell, you can even say- she's carrying the burden alone all the way to Sochi. We have Suzuki too, and the rest of the field- but none of them compares to the gargantuan career that Asada has made for herself and her country (in terms of iconic status, she is second to Midori and the rest can go to sleep IMO). Likewise with Kim! Such grace and artistry, these two will leave massive voids in the field after they retire. Their fortunes- having lived their competitive careers alongside each other and ending it at the same time just adds more magic to the legend ^^

    They both may not move all audiences with their performances, but my god they have moved two whole countries. THAT on its own is an achievement.


    I agree with you about both Mao Asada and Kim Yuna. In the future, any conversation about the Greats will include Kim Yuna no doubt. I also agree the Mao Asada is the face of figure skating in the country where figure skating is most popular.
    Talking about Asada, I think some people will appreciate her more when she is gone, because with her the 3A will also leave the scene of ladies competition. In addition, if Japan does not produce a female star that can match her, you would have a case similar to Michelle Kwan, where she continues to be the standard for Ladies figure skating in the U.S

  11. #101
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    Of course Kim and Asada are on the rosters! Forget about medals and achievements in the sport (DUH! All of their collective achievements are ASTOUNDING)...just think of the cultural impact they have left by way of figure skating! I mean it's Britney and Christina all over again!

    ...okay maybe that trivialises it a bit, but it makes sense doesn't it? Kim does NOT need 2 OGMs. She has shone the light on figure skating in a country where it was never of credible relevance. Asada has successfully carried the burden of a sustained career and the flag of Japanese skating since her debut in the senior ranks in 2005. Hell, you can even say- she's carrying the burden alone all the way to Sochi. We have Suzuki too, and the rest of the field- but none of them compares to the gargantuan career that Asada has made for herself and her country (in terms of iconic status, she is second to Midori and the rest can go to sleep IMO). Likewise with Kim! Such grace and artistry, these two will leave massive voids in the field after they retire. Their fortunes- having lived their competitive careers alongside each other and ending it at the same time just adds more magic to the legend ^^

    They both may not move all audiences with their performances, but my god they have moved two whole countries. THAT on its own is an achievement.
    A couple of interesting statements in your post...

    Asada is second to Ito, and no one else is of as much significance in Japanese skating in the long haul... I'd have to say I agree, although it pains me to dismiss their first Olympic champion.

    They (meaning Asada and Kim) moved two whole countries. Time will tell, especially in the case of Kim. When Midori Ito retired, Yuka Sato was there to carry the torch, and then it was passed to a generation of great skaters, including Mao. I'm sure it will be passed again.

    However, in the case of Kim, the torch passing doesn't seem so clear-cut.

  12. #102
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Agree with you the torch will be passed again, but only time will tell if Japan will have a star of Mao's level. It is to early to tell, but none of the current Japanese Juniors are having the success Mao had as a Junior. One of the reasons, Mao is so loved in Japan is because at 15 she won a GPF final in front of the eyes her nations, from that moment on she became the face of figure skating in her country.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    A couple of interesting statements in your post...

    Asada is second to Ito, and no one else is of as much significance in Japanese skating in the long haul... I'd have to say I agree, although it pains me to dismiss their first Olympic champion.

    They (meaning Asada and Kim) moved two whole countries. Time will tell, especially in the case of Kim. When Midori Ito retired, Yuka Sato was there to carry the torch, and then it was passed to a generation of great skaters, including Mao. I'm sure it will be passed again.

    However, in the case of Kim, the torch passing doesn't seem so clear-cut.

    I agree with you Kim Yuna is a phenomenon and those don't have happen everyday. Sourth Korea might have to wait a long time to have this happen to them again.

  14. #104
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Thank you Mrs. P, Mathman and Golden411 - all very helpful!

    (Mrs. P, I was already finding your "Nate Silver-ing" score analyses very informative, and so helpful in understanding scores that may initially seem puzzling - thanks again!)

    PS. American football is not exactly big in this country, but there is some (American) coverage on TV here. I will enjoy it more, now that I know what a "down" is! :-D
    Great! You got your answer so I don't have to read your hollow complaints again using that flawed analysis.

    BTW nice inserted mention of Asada and Ando's scores after I already replied to your post. Golden Skate made a winning decision in removing timestamps for edits.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    A couple of interesting statements in your post...

    Asada is second to Ito, and no one else is of as much significance in Japanese skating in the long haul... I'd have to say I agree, although it pains me to dismiss their first Olympic champion.

    They (meaning Asada and Kim) moved two whole countries. Time will tell, especially in the case of Kim. When Midori Ito retired, Yuka Sato was there to carry the torch, and then it was passed to a generation of great skaters, including Mao. I'm sure it will be passed again.

    However, in the case of Kim, the torch passing doesn't seem so clear-cut.
    I think that Kim's ability to start a dynasty is different from her influence on skating, which is worldwide, not localized. Someone who is that great isn't just a national treasure. She belongs to skating in general, much as Torvill and Dean do. In that sense I suspect that in Kim's case, we don't have to wait for the judgement of later times. Her reputation will endure.

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