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Thread: Martiusheva/Rogonov

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    Martiusheva/Rogonov

    Just curious, what do people think of Martiusheva/Rogonov's chances for the Olympics? With Kavaguti and Smirnov most certainly done, I think that the 3rd spot on the team is between M/R and Stolbova/Klimov. I much prefer M/R - why are they getting so undermarked? I understand why the spin was voided in the CoC SP, but those components are much lower than they should be, IMO. They're a stunning team, whereas to me, S/K are just dull, doing their elements to random music.

    Thoughts? Are M/R underscored? Will they make the Olympic team? I think a team of V/T, B/L, and M/R would be fantastic.

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    , no competition S/K can easily score a 190+ if clean

    M/R are sadly cannot be improved and are big headcases, they will stay B class skaters or break up in the near future again

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    I don't think Martiusheva-Rogonov have a chance to be sent. They have been very inconsistent for the last few years. It is sad that when she landed the jump they mess up the spin!

    There is also Antipova-Maisuradze and Gerboldt-Enbert. And Tarasova-Morozov are still skating for juniors but I think they are eligible for seniors and if by any chance they did very well in the JGPF and Russian nationals, they might have some chance.

    But I agree that Stolbova-Klimov are most likely to be sent.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Stolbova-Klimov NEED to be sent. They are special. Better than B/L.

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    Stolbova klimov are not dull. if anything M/R are the dull ones. she always looks miserable on the ice and always make errors. She has nice positions in lifts better even than stolbova but i wish she could at least enjoy herself out there. like her partner does.

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    How can you call Stolbova/Klimov dull? The way their FS is laid out: the shapes they cut on the ice, the way they move from one element to another changing positions, it's one of the most interesting programs I've seen in Pairs for years.

    S/K could be more expressive and they could do more with their upper bodies, yes. But there's more to skating than that and they have some really lovely qualities.

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    Stolbova/Klimov are in their 20s already and still haven't got a triple twist. Russia appears to be positioning them to be their top pair after V/T retire but I have doubts they can live up to those expectations. Nevertheless, they'll probably be a solid pair. Their positions and speed are getting better.

    Martiusheva has looked very unhappy in the past (not surprising given the shadow of a split constantly hanging over her) but so far at Cup of China she looks fine and she skated well. Even when she was unhappy, M/R couldn't be dull if they tried. They have a strong and unique presence on the ice. For an 18 year old, she really stands out artistically. Among Russia's younger pairs, I think they're the most talented but they have nowhere near the political backing that S/K are getting. So their chances for the Olympics are unfortunately next to zero but they might have a chance to get assigned to Worlds if V/T and K/S don't show up. I wonder if B/L are also planning to retire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiem View Post
    Stolbova/Klimov are in their 20s already and still haven't got a triple twist. Russia appears to be positioning them to be their top pair after V/T retire but I have doubts they can live up to those expectations. Nevertheless, they'll probably be a solid pair. Their positions and speed are getting better.
    I don't think that's the truth. After V/T retire, there still will be Bazarova/Larionov. And this year 5 junior teams got to JGPF; some of the juniors become senior age eligible soon.

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    Are we sure that Bazarova/Larionov will continue competing after Sochi? Even if B/L stay in, I think Russia wants S/K to be their #1. Just look at the PCS their judges give them in domestic events. Very close to B/L even though internationally their PCS are not close at all.

    As for the junior teams, who could make a challenge for the #1 spot? Most of those pairs are inconsistent. Two of them (V/Z and F/M) have never landed a triple jump in competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiem View Post
    Are we sure that Bazarova/Larionov will continue competing after Sochi? Even if B/L stay in, I think Russia wants S/K to be their #1. Just look at the PCS their judges give them in domestic events. Very close to B/L even though internationally their PCS are not close at all.

    As for the junior teams, who could make a challenge for the #1 spot? Most of those pairs are inconsistent. Two of them (V/Z and F/M) have never landed a triple jump in competition.
    there is some truth into this, not necessarily pushing as No.1 for Stolbova/Klimov but they might be a little swayed they beat B/L in national competition last month
    they might be a bit worried with B/L especially with Bazarova's jumps but B/L are not yet retiring

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    Anyway, getting back on topic, it sounds like Martiusheva landed her triple toe in both programs (though it sounds like she didn't have the best landing in the free skate) so sky_fly, your claim that they're not improving is false.

    However, M/R did give away points in both segments. 0 points for their pair spin in the short program and 0 points for one of the lifts in the free skate... They have all the skills but they need to start putting them together.

    (And M/R really need to practice their fake smile and put in more schmoopy lovey-dovey pairs choreo. It seems most judges aren't aware of any other PCS criteria, since M/R keep getting the lowest PCS even though they're one of the most elegant pairs out there. Part of it can be explained by M/R's early start orders and lack of political backing but they need to start conforming to what's expected. )

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    I would love to see M/R on the Olympic team but it is not going to happen for Sochi, they are simply not a threat to the Top 3, I think Russian Top 5 is the best they can hope for this year. I definitely think they are undermarked on the PCS side, looking at the scores from yesterdays SP in China, I thought they were very harshly marked. I think they have a very lyrical style, love their lines and elegance but the technichal side is pulling this down (wrongly IMO).

    I though it was interesting yesterday that the coach had a smile and kiss for Rogonov and nothing for Martiusheva (maybe the camera cut away?) but in the K&C they didn't look the happiest camp. Russia has a long of junior teams with potential coming through post Sochi it could be tough for M/R. I would be delighted to see them represent Russia at a European or Worlds.

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    I think Pavlova has never had good relationships with her female students. According to various articles, Totmianina was desperate to leave Pavlova. Twice she begged Moskvina to take her and Marinin but Moskvina didn't have room for them at the time. Eventually T/M decided to switch to Vasiliev, even though at that point he was a newbie coach while Pavlova was very experienced.

    Iliushechkina ran away it seems because of Pavlova's harshness toward her.

    Antipova/Maisuradze also tried to leave Pavlova this summer but the Russian federation wouldn't let them. Maisuradze has always had a good relationship with Pavlova so I'm guessing Antipova didn't feel comfortable with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    there is some truth into this, not necessarily pushing as No.1 for Stolbova/Klimov but they might be a little swayed they beat B/L in national competition last month
    they might be a bit worried with B/L especially with Bazarova's jumps but B/L are not yet retiring
    If you watched it, you would know that S-K beat B-L at their internal competition because B-L had a fall and after that they skated a bit off. They were strong at the beginning, but after the fall it suddenly was without conviction. I don't think clean S-K would beat B-L if there wasn't that freaky fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiem View Post
    Anyway, getting back on topic, it sounds like Martiusheva landed her triple toe in both programs (though it sounds like she didn't have the best landing in the free skate) so sky_fly, your claim that they're not improving is false.

    However, M/R did give away points in both segments. 0 points for their pair spin in the short program and 0 points for one of the lifts in the free skate... They have all the skills but they need to start putting them together.

    (And M/R really need to practice their fake smile and put in more schmoopy lovey-dovey pairs choreo. It seems most judges aren't aware of any other PCS criteria, since M/R keep getting the lowest PCS even though they're one of the most elegant pairs out there. Part of it can be explained by M/R's early start orders and lack of political backing but they need to start conforming to what's expected. )
    I was very impressed that she managed to land her triples. Even though there were small mistakes on the jumps, at least it was rotated and she did not fall. I think that they should change to Vasiliev. The style that he was putting on Mukhortova-Trankov ('lyrical snots') is the one that nicely fits to Martiusheva-Rogonov and he may make them relating to each other more. M-R are so elegant and it doesn't seem to be appreciated by the judges, so maybe it is time they put into it a bit of what Virtue-Moir are doing so well - all those looks into each other's eyes etc.

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