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Thread: Are Lipnitskaya & Pogorilaya now the favourites to make the Russian Olympic team?

  1. #106
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Hmmm. I thought Anna was not so great. All elbows, shoulders, knees, flexed feet. I think she landed her jumps, I was so distracted by her poor skating. So she won, great. It was a terrible event. Kostner has only impressed me maybe once in her 15 years as a senior and today was not one of them. She was typical Caro who somehow got propped up. No, Pogo won't go to the Olympics, her skating is abysmal. I watched her go through her program and thought 'Well she sorta has the jumps and combos but nothing else'.

    I'm calling it obviously Julia, and Tuk. Sot is a nutcase.

  2. #107
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni step View Post
    Elizaveta is a much stronger performer and don't forget her coach is Mishin, they tend to give his students a little nudge up in PCS. As for spins, that's true but Elizaveta's are better than last year by quite a bit and wouldn't totally put her out of the game. And Julia receive the same GOE on her jumps as Liza??? That's just not going to happen considering how good her jumps are when they work, some of the best in the world, Julia's quality of jump is only standard. And Elizaveta's jump layout is more difficult than Julia's with her 2A-3T and 3-2-2 in the second half.
    With all due respect, this is just not true. Liza is not a stronger performer than Julia in her current programs. I do think Julia's team was SMART and gave her programs that could work for her, and that had they given Julia anything upbeat, or anything honestly not just heartbreaking, this would not be true. However, Liza is a middling performer at best compared to the other top skaters. At worst, at this time, she and Julia are neck to neck. No advantage to either skater.

    Liza gets very poor PCS for a skater of her caliber, and Julia's PCS are now above hers. If that would change if Liza could go clean is a question worth considering, but I think, at worst, they are again neck to neck on this point, advantage to Julia..

    Liza would pick up some extra GOE for her jumps if both were clean, and Julia would pick up some extra GOE for her spins and steps and for the choreographic sequence. Julia's BV is higher. Again, I'm calling this neck to neck at best, advantage to Julia.

    So, if they both go clean, I see it as a virtual tie, in the best case scenario for Liza, and realistically, Julia coming out slightly ahead. In such a scenario, if Russia is deciding at their nationals (barring a total comeback from Liza where she skates clean every time starting YESTERDAY or a total meltdown from Julia) Julia will be marked ahead and sent to Sochi as the number one, because she is consistent and the federation is rightly going to think it's better to send her as the number one because she is far less likely to mess up than Liza.

    I am not a Liza hater, but this is the truth.

  3. #108
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    this is wrong though if you look at the the protocols
    Julia almost gets the same GOE that Tuk gets, so its not a Tuk advantage at all

    Tuk lost some of her jump height ever since she developed her weight issues
    even Averbukh in interview said Tuk needs to lose weight

  4. #109
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Great another know- it- all about the weight of a 17 year old. Liza is really slim, if you see her live she has no fat anywhere,she just grew up and not all people are getting the body type of Yuna Kim. Besides her weight is not an issue obviously otherwise she wouldnt be able to skate two clean or almost clean Fs already in the season. Also Leonova and Elena G the moment they started losing weight below their normal, they have gone downhill. Between Averbukh and Mishin I trust Mishin on this, sorry.
    If Julia gets the same goe for her jumps as Liza, then there is a problem because I see their technique is night and day.

  5. #110
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Great another know- it- all about the weight of a 17 year old. Liza is really slim, if you see her live she has no fat anywhere,she just grew up and not all people are getting the body type of Yuna Kim. Besides her weight is not an issue obviously otherwise she wouldnt be able to skate two clean or almost clean Fs already in the season. Also Leonova and Elena G the moment they started losing weight below their normal, they have gone downhill. Between Averbukh and Mishin I trust Mishin on this, sorry.
    If Julia gets the same goe for her jumps as Liza, then there is a problem because I see their technique is night and day.
    Averkbukh comment on the state of Russian ladies and figure skaters in Russia for Sochi
    he said Tuk is struggling because she has weight issues http://www.championat.com/olympic14/...a-oi-2014.html

  6. #111
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    With all due respect, this is just not true. Liza is not a stronger performer than Julia in her current programs. I do think Julia's team was SMART and gave her programs that could work for her, and that had they given Julia anything upbeat, or anything honestly not just heartbreaking, this would not be true. However, Liza is a middling performer at best compared to the other top skaters. At worst, at this time, she and Julia are neck to neck. No advantage to either skater.
    Well there's no accounting for taste obviously, but I think that we may mean different things by performer. I meant a stronger performer in the sense that she really comes alive and engages the audience when she skates, Julia by comparison is quite introverted. Julia does have better program's and interpretation as well as skating skills I agree though.

    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    Liza would pick up some extra GOE for her jumps if both were clean, and Julia would pick up some extra GOE for her spins and steps and for the choreographic sequence. Julia's BV is higher. Again, I'm calling this neck to neck at best, advantage to Julia.
    The part about Julia having higher BV is factually not true at this point when clean. Having calculated it Liza just barely tops Julia in BV because of two of her three big elements being in the second half.

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    this is wrong though if you look at the the protocols Julia almost gets the same GOE that Tuk gets, so its not a Tuk advantage at all
    Obviously you receive a little boost in GOE when you skate clean, or a big one. And this was in reference to jumps not GOE in its entirety. Elizaveta definitely has the edge considering she doesn't get edge calls. Has better running edge and height on her jumps.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Averkbukh comment on the state of Russian ladies and figure skaters in Russia for Sochi
    he said Tuk is struggling because she has weight issues http://www.championat.com/olympic14/...a-oi-2014.html
    And her "weight issues" bother her more in the SPs than in the LPs? Well, funny old world we live in then - who'd have thought?

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    And her "weight issues" bother her more in the SPs than in the LPs? Well, funny old world we live in then - who'd have thought?
    I think her 3lutz+3toe not consistent anymore so this is bothering her at short programs. She didn't land any 3l+3t at free programs this season too. But that is less noticeable.

  9. #114
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    And her "weight issues" bother her more in the SPs than in the LPs? Well, funny old world we live in then - who'd have thought?
    weight impacts the jumps, she used to be consitent with 3lz-3t
    now with her added weight she seems to have struggled and her jump have gotten a bit smaller

  10. #115
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    The "weight" issue had discussed thoroughly else where and is quite boring. It distracts from perfectly interesting threads. Wish we could move on.

  11. #116
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    Weight is not the issue: Liza's big problem is her chronic inability to skate a clean SP---her free skates are great. Sotnikova skates great SPs but can't get through a FS without making one or two huge mistakes.

    How these ladies do in the GP won't count as much as Russian Nationals and Europeans.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Weight is not the issue: Liza's big problem is her chronic inability to skate a clean SP---her free skates are great. Sotnikova skates great SPs but can't get through a FS without making one or two huge mistakes.

    How these ladies do in the GP won't count as much as Russian Nationals and Europeans.
    Exactly!

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I'm calling it obviously Julia, and Tuk. Sot is a nutcase.
    Could we be more respectful to the skaters? She isn't a crazy person, she just struggles with her consistency under pressure. Despite the mistakes, Adelina is quite good. I don't think anyone else besides Mao or Yuna could have beaten Carolina in CoC with the same mistakes.

  14. #119
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    I also don't understand how somebody could call Sot a nutcase when Tuk has messed up her SP over and over. If you're going to flay one skater for inconsistency (and you shouldn't since skaters deserve respect) you should probably shouldn't be lauding or putting your faith in an equally, if not more, inconsistent skater.

  15. #120
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    I think being called a nutcase is disrespectful- Sot obviously has some technical issues that need to be worked out (her entry to the flip is sooo hesitant and cautious that it's a real issue for her) but questioning her overall mental state is just bizarre. I believe the word that LiamForeman was looking for is headcase. In that sense, many top skaters would in some way or another be a headcase on some issues of their skating. Look at Caro- she might be called a headcase on consistency, but she still has great qualities that compensate for that.

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