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Thread: Are Lipnitskaya & Pogorilaya now the favourites to make the Russian Olympic team?

  1. #121
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guanchi View Post
    I think being called a nutcase is disrespectful- Sot obviously has some technical issues that need to be worked out (her entry to the flip is sooo hesitant and cautious that it's a real issue for her) but questioning her overall mental state is just bizarre. I believe the word that LiamForeman was looking for is headcase. In that sense, many top skaters would in some way or another be a headcase on some issues of their skating. Look at Caro- she might be called a headcase on consistency, but she still has great qualities that compensate for that.
    Yes, I meant headcase. I am not a forensic psychiatrist, so yeah, I used the wrong word. Sorry. But as for Liza missing her SPs and coming back in the LP, well the SP is hit or miss. You might pick in right where the previous skater destroyed the ice and you miss the toe pick. At least in the LP you have twice as much time to prove yourself. Liza proves herself in the LP time and again. Sotnikova shows pretty regularly that her SP was an anomaly by her awful LPs.

    I cannot imagine Lipnitskaya being left off the team. She has IT, she has consistency (so far, who knows when/if she grows) and she is well, just a special skater. I find nothing special with Tuk or Sot. JMO

  2. #122
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Have not read thread but I would choose Julia and Liza, as Liza is a veteran despite age. I think Adelina lacks any artistry. Julia proved when clean judges love her attack. I have to admit she is a great little skater. Liza shows maturity and great spunk. Her style grows on me. Anna is so new but impressive. These girls may take the podium if YuNa bailed-not remotely likely.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Have not read thread but I would choose Julia and Liza, as Liza is a veteran despite age. I think Adelina lacks any artistry. Julia proved when clean judges love her attack. I have to admit she is a great little skater. Liza shows maturity and great spunk. Her style grows on me. Anna is so new but impressive. These girls may take the podium if YuNa bailed-not remotely likely.
    You're entitled to your opinion, but if Sotnikova supposedly lacks artistry, then Liza is completely and utterly devoid of it.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Yes, I meant headcase. I am not a forensic psychiatrist, so yeah, I used the wrong word. Sorry. But as for Liza missing her SPs and coming back in the LP, well the SP is hit or miss. You might pick in right where the previous skater destroyed the ice and you miss the toe pick. At least in the LP you have twice as much time to prove yourself. Liza proves herself in the LP time and again. Sotnikova shows pretty regularly that her SP was an anomaly by her awful LPs.
    I think I would rather invest in a skater who consistently at least puts herself in a position to win, even if she's inconsistent in her FS. Liza is not consistent at all in her SP and thus her chances of winning are compromised from the get-go and she constantly has to play catch up. Honestly who cares if she skates a great LP if she places 9th after the SP?

    Also, the scoring potential for Sotnikova is much greater -- Liza went practically clean in her FS at Worlds 2013, whereas Sotnikova made 3 jump errors (including two URs and no 3rd combo), and was still a mere 3 points behind her in the segment.

  5. #125
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    Liza scored over 130 in the LP at Europeans so while the scoring potential of Sotnikova is probably greater, I wouldnt say much greater. I do not believe a clean Sotnikova (atleast attempting a jump layout she can realistically do cleanly, triple lutz-triple loop please, she is never skating cleanly with that in her program) would score much over 130 either.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni step View Post
    don't forget her coach is Mishin
    Mishin is not powerful in Russia at this point. He couldnt even sway favor for his prized pupil Plushenko in 2010. The Russian fed. was even against him at one point.

    That's just not going to happen considering how good her jumps are when they work, some of the best in the world
    Well I have looked at their recent protocals and Julia's clean jumps are scoring about on average the same as Elizaveta's. I would be happy to show you some if you dont believe me. I dont agree Elizaveta is one of the best jumpers in the World when they work. People like Kim, Gold, and even Kostner are in a whole different league in jumping quality and blow her away in GOE scores.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion, but if Sotnikova supposedly lacks artistry, then Liza is completely and utterly devoid of it.
    I agree that they both lack it. But at least Liza has the ability to follow her music. I used to prefer Adelina because I find every single one of Liza's movements bothersome, but if Liza can merely hit a beat then that already puts her at an artistry "advantage" over Adelina. Not that that's saying much.

  8. #128
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    Either way I think it is pretty simple:

    All skate cleanly at Europeans (assuming it is the expected 3) then Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova will be the team.
    Lipnitskaia and Tuktamysheva skate cleanly and Sotnikova skates her realistic good (which is not clean) then Lipnitskaia and Tuktamysheva are probably the team.

    No way Lipnitskaia is left off for Tuktamysheva at this point though IMO. Even if Tuktamysheva someow produced a perfect competition the Russian fed. are not going to favor someone who at best has similar scoring potential, but is far more inconsistent. Atleast Sotnikova you could argue has even more scoring potential if she ever produced her fantasy World clean program people are waiting for. Even if normal circumstances a clean Julia and clean Elizaveta might score about equal, the Russian fed. will politik the heck out of things going into Europeans to make sure Julia and Adelina will be the team if all skate well. Or they will go with Russian National results, either way Julia will make it over Elizaveta if it ever came to that. Sotnikova is their pet over the years, and Julia is the only one they can both count on who can also score big, and who is gaining momentum with international judges. However Adelina is likely to make enough mistakes Elizaveta can beat her if she shorts out her short program problems inspite of that, even if Adelina has one of her better competitions.

    Anna has no hope unless Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva continue to struggle as much as they are now. However the sad thing is that is entirely possible.

  9. #129
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Either way I think it is pretty simple:

    Atleast Sotnikova you could argue has even more scoring potential if she ever produced her fantasy World clean program people are waiting for.
    Sad but true.

  10. #130
    Custom Title Sasha'sSpins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    90% the team will be Sotnikova+Lipnitskaya
    This is my call for the Russian women's team at Sochi. Either Tut or Pog will be alternate.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    This is my call for the Russian women's team at Sochi. Either Tut or Pog will be alternate.
    If Sotnikova doesn't change then I cannot see her as a part of the team at Sochi. Just two girls and less chance to podium.

  12. #132
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    I would say that if Julia and Adelina are the top 2 (eligible) at Russian Nats, the team is set.

    If it is Tuk and Julia/Adelina, then Tuk will have to beat one of those at Euros.

    If it is Pogo and Julia/Adelina, then Pogo will have to beat one of those at Euros.

    All of them, including Julia, will have to be in the top 3 qualifiers at Russian Nats to have a chance.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I would say that if Julia and Adelina are the top 2 (eligible) at Russian Nats, the team is set.

    If it is Tuk and Julia/Adelina, then Tuk will have to beat one of those at Euros.

    If it is Pogo and Julia/Adelina, then Pogo will have to beat one of those at Euros.

    All of them, including Julia, will have to be in the top 3 qualifiers at Russian Nats to have a chance.
    Probably all true. I don't see why Sotnikova should have that kind of different circumstances from Tuktamysheva at this point, but she probably does. I still am predicting Tuktamysheva to overcome that and beat Sotnikova at both events to gain that 2nd spot though.

  14. #134
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    They will send Tuktamisheva to reduce the costs, since her coach will go anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Probably all true. I don't see why Sotnikova should have that kind of different circumstances from Tuktamysheva at this point, but she probably does. I still am predicting Tuktamysheva to overcome that and beat Sotnikova at both events to gain that 2nd spot though.
    Sotnikova has consistently had better results than Tuk this season and last. Still, I agree Tuk can take her spot if she beats her at Nationals AND Euros. The season is still young and all four of the contenders being discussed still have one more GP event, and all have respectable finishes in their first event (1st, 1st, 2nd, 4th).

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