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Thread: Julia Lipnitskaya's FS - Schindler's List ( The Red Coat Effect )

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllYouDoIsTalk View Post
    What? Are we talking the same program? We are talking Schindler's List, yes? Cause in intro, Julia has head down-- overburdened with questions of schematic rhetoric; then she skated forward and looked back over her shoulder-- conveying the systematic repression of the full scale of human objectivity through formless guilt; then further on, she skated forward then she come running back on her blades, yes? and then to a screeching halt, thus conveying that there is a vast difference between 1) regarding groups as being shaped by immediate circumstances, including the people and institutions around them and 2) regarding groups as having own internal cultural patterns, antedating the environment in which they currently find themselves, and transcending the beliefs, biases, and decisions of others.

    Outro because Julia, by using the Stanislavsky method of using props, when done spinning like corkscrew, she steadies herself and finishes by looking over shoulder again-- but more upward this time and more toward the distance-- depicting the cultural characteristics of TWO middleman minorities, Jews and toddlers, as primarily a function of the constraints imposed upon them by the host societies in which they live (Jews) and only secondarily of the group's own cultural development (toddlers). In short, the consequence of what they were *allowed* to do, than of any "traditional" proclivity of their own-- certainly true of the Jews annexed by czarist Russia. Julia knows, and Julia conveys this.
    lmao, really? You cannot be serious. You really think she knows everything that you just said?

    She probably does know and understand the topic of holocaust and the tragedy thereof, but I highly doubt she's aware of any of the concepts you described. Nor does her choreography convey all that.
    It's a nice intro, but man, talk about over-intepretation

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    lmao, really? You cannot be serious. You really think she knows everything that you just said?

    She probably does know and understand the topic of holocaust and the tragedy thereof, but I highly doubt she's aware of any of the concepts you described. Nor does her choreography convey all that.
    It's a nice intro, but man, talk about over-intepretation
    Unless I am completely mistaken, some satirical clowning around is involved here.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllYouDoIsTalk View Post
    What? Are we talking the same program? We are talking Schindler's List, yes? Cause in intro, Julia has head down-- overburdened with questions of schematic rhetoric; then she skated forward and looked back over her shoulder-- conveying the systematic repression of the full scale of human objectivity through formless guilt; then further on, she skated forward then she come running back on her blades, yes? and then to a screeching halt, thus conveying that there is a vast difference between 1) regarding groups as being shaped by immediate circumstances, including the people and institutions around them and 2) regarding groups as having own internal cultural patterns, antedating the environment in which they currently find themselves, and transcending the beliefs, biases, and decisions of others.

    Outro because Julia, by using the Stanislavsky method of using props, when done spinning like corkscrew, she steadies herself and finishes by looking over shoulder again-- but more upward this time and more toward the distance-- depicting the cultural characteristics of TWO middleman minorities, Jews and toddlers, as primarily a function of the constraints imposed upon them by the host societies in which they live (Jews) and only secondarily of the group's own cultural development (toddlers). In short, the consequence of what they were *allowed* to do, than of any "traditional" proclivity of their own-- certainly true of the Jews annexed by czarist Russia. Julia knows, and Julia conveys this.
    And did you know that in her dislocating spiral Julia is deliberately evoking the intensely emotional, personal transformation of Schindler from staunch businessman to empathetic life-saver? I mean, the very moment her leg dislocates and switches position from her side to behind her back, it's like WOW, that spiral represents everything about Oscar Schindler right there. Julia knows this... Julia conveys this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    Unless I am completely mistaken, some satirical clowning around is involved here.
    lol that's the problem with places like this: you never know if people are being satirical or simply delusional My bad.

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    The "Girl in a Red Dress" concept is not Averbukh's original though.

    Kararina Witt 1995
    http://youtu.be/usxGTqh4nLs

  6. #21
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    One of her best.

  7. #22
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    It was very impressive. I believe she will bring better programs with improved performance as time goes by. She is young.

  8. #23
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Is Julia Jewish? This music might mean a heck of a lot to her. She's not ten but fifteen. I was fifteen my junior year in HS. And clearly not a child. She might be feeling this music with her soul.

  9. #24
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    The "Girl in a Red Dress" concept is not Averbukh's original though.

    Kararina Witt 1995
    http://youtu.be/usxGTqh4nLs
    If I can recall, Katarina skated this in a catsuit showing off her ample bosoms. I think she said she skated to this music as if she was the little girl who survived and obviously 'grew up'. Umm, the little girl in red was carried off in the back of a horse drawn carriage with thirty other dead bodies. It didn't help that Katarina Witt was branded as an alleged Stasi sympathizer and friend and represented just about EVERYTHING the world distrusted in communist East Germany. As a person of Jewish heritage I cringed when she showed her boobs and skated to Schindler's List. I was like "It was a person like yourself who sold your soul for your communist country which resulted in so many deaths. No thanks, Kati." It was horrible. I'm team Julia and Averbukh on this one. I prefer the innocence, and the somewhat innocent pathos, and can much appreciate Julia's interpretation. This program brings me to tears.

    Here is an interesting article about Katarina Witt and the Stasi. Apparently good friend Ingo spied on her, but Katarina somehow how the Stasi wrapped around her finger, supplying her with a penthouse, car, and a country house. So Katarina at least knew how to get what she wanted from the Stasi, and I cannot make this leap in judgment that she actually never worked for them but yet would be supplied ALL these insanely luxurious amenities. How many people can just stand up to the Stasi and demand the royal treatment? It's like being the figurative virgin in the henhouse. I'm sure there are, but likely? Neh.



    'The Diplomat': Olympic Gold and the Stasi


    By Cynthia Fuchs 6 August 2013


    PopMatters Film and TV Editor




    Tempo, Tempo

    “I always looked up to her,” says Ingo Steuer. “I was always on the rod with Katarina. And the State saw me as very close to her, someone who traveled with Kati.” Steuer, a German figure skater, is talking about Katarina Witt. But he’s not telling a story about his friendship with the four-time World and two-time Olympic champion. Rather, he’s talking about how he betrayed her.


    Steuer was just 17 or 18, he recalls in the Nine For IX documentary The Diplomat, when he received a visit from a man he “knew,” a man he “used to see every day at the rink.” As he remembers what happened next—“They gave me a piece of paper, they pushed a lamp and said, ‘Read this and sign!’”—the film offers a bit of noirish reenactment, a close up of a paper and an ominous lamp. Ingo says that he felt threatened by the word “prison” on the paper, and so he signed. “I really just wanted to skate,” he says now, as you see the current-day Steuer from a distance, looking down and stubbing his toe into ice at the rink where ne now coaches. “I mean,” he adds, “I was 17 years old, I was shocked.” And so he reacted like a frightened young person, like an athlete who owed his training and opportunities to the State. He signed the paper.


    Steuer’s distress over this moment is still visible in his face, even now, some 30 years after the event. He was enlisted by the Stasi to ensure that Witt, who was then the GDR’s most popular and “most beautiful” representative, would not defect. “If this had happened,” Steuer says, “it would have been a catastrophe.” The Stasi’s fears were at once well founded and not, according to Witt, who is in fact the focus of Jennifer Arnold and Senain Kheshgi’s documentary.


    Her context is clear from the moment the film begins with elegant, beautifully crafted long shots of Karl Marx Stadt, the skating rink where Witt trained as a child and young champion with the legendary Jutta Müller. Witt points out that she was able to do this work she loved precisely because she was in the GDR. “My parents, if they lived in America, they never would have had the money to pay for the sport,” she says. “My career was supported by the State.” For this, Witt remains grateful, though she recalls too that she was also worried from a young age about her future. She knew she would be unable to pursue a career in skating—even as she saw fellow competitors like America’s Brian Boitano skate professionally. With help from Müller, Witt was able to make a deal with the State: if she won a second gold medal, at the 1988 Olympic Games, she would be allowed to tour the world as a skater, and also a representative for the grandeur of the GDR


    Witt remains diplomatic as she describes her past in the film, lovely, formal, even regal as she sits at a skating rink for her interview. The State’s version of events is articulated in The Dilplomat by former East German leader Egon Krenz: he appears in archival footage, looking vibrant as he addresses an audience concerning the State’s strength and resolve; in an interview today, he offers context but not explanation for the GDR’s efforts to control its citizens. It’s true that all individuals were expected to contribute to the socialist ideal, he says, but he doesn’t describe how that ideal was lost, how individuals within the government and the Stasi more specifically became corrupt, how they served to repress citizens. The film underscores this point by showing, in reenactments, how microphones were planted in apartments and athlete’s mail was monitored. One panning shot follows the wires leading from a bug located on the wall of a skating rink, a shot that leads nowhere but makes clear the threat of such ever present surveillance.


    Even as these images might make you cringe—and perhaps remind you of current debates about US agencies collecting data on phone calls and internet communications—the film complicates Witt’s story. As much as she is a victim of Stasi efforts to monitor her travel and activities, she was, in the end, a privileged citizen, a point made public when the Berlin Wall, erected in 1961, came down in 1989. At this point, Stasi and other East German government files were exposed, revealing not only who spied or informed on whom, and the awful extents to which friends and family members were coerced to spy on one another, but also who benefited from the State’s efforts to control everyone. Witt was a celebrity, and as such, she had a nice car, a penthouse apartment, even a country home, and for this she was attacked in the new free(r) press and in other public forums.


    Here again, she appears a diplomat, sitting carefully on the set of a television talk show, subjecting herself to questions. She maintains that she was deserving of some special treatment, given her service to the State: she did what she was told and expected to do, Witt says, and for this, she shouldn’t be punished or criticized, even after the rules as she understood them have changed. It’s in this context that another dimension of Witt’s tact and understanding of the complex workings of politics emerges, as she’s asked about her relationship with Ingo Steuer. For it’s not only her files that are available since eth Wall fell, but his and other informants’ too. The State, she notes, had watched her since she was seven years old, using Steuer and other associates to do so.


    “Katarina’s a smart girl,” says Boitano, “I mean, she’s the woman who convinced a government to let her go out of the country.” She says now that she was lucky, “at the right time, at the right place.” The film here shows the rink being refurbished so that a next generation of young skaters might train there. “Everybody has their own reasons” she says now, “No one had hurt me, but then I always think, why did they have to do it? You know, in a way, maybe they had to survive. So, it’s their story.” And hers too.



    Rating:



    Cynthia Fuchs is director of Film & Media Studies and Associate Professor of English, Film & Video Studies, African and African American Studies, Sport & American Culture, and Women and Gender Studies at George Mason University.

  10. #25
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I'm sure she used her edges to make her drawing....?? lol
    Someone is referencing the SP.

  11. #26
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    I like that her acting or performance is not overwrought like Brian boitano who in one year tried to become artistic. Subtlety is far more sophistictated and difficult. But she is still young and her jumps show it. She will not be able to overcome Kostner or Mao or Yuna. she would need some luck to beat Ashley as well and holdoff suzuki probably but you never know. If she skates consistently and her pcs rise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    lmao, really? You cannot be serious. You really think she knows everything that you just said?

    She probably does know and understand the topic of holocaust and the tragedy thereof, but I highly doubt she's aware of any of the concepts you described. Nor does her choreography convey all that.
    It's a nice intro, but man, talk about over-intepretation
    To be honest do you really think most skaters know what the music means to their programs. yes, they are taught things to say to make them seem more thoughtful, more artistic but do you really think they understand. The nutcracker and Swan lake and rome and juiliet and carmen are done often but do you really think people understand other than superficially often

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    If I can recall, Katarina skated this in a catsuit showing off her ample bosoms. I think she said she skated to this music as if she was the little girl who survived and obviously 'grew up'. Umm, the little girl in red was carried off in the back of a horse drawn carriage with thirty other dead bodies. It didn't help that Katarina Witt was a Stasi spy and represented just about EVERYTHING the world distrusted in communist East Germany. As a person of Jewish heritage I cringed when she showed her boobs and skated to Schindler's List. I was like "It was a person like yourself who sold your soul for your communist country which resulted in so many deaths. No thanks, Kati." It was horrible. I'm team Julia and Averbukh on this one. I prefer the innocence, and the somewhat innocent pathos, and can much appreciate Julia's interpretation. This program brings me to tears.
    I think I made the similar comment somewhere though Witt's outfit was a dress the top was very fitted and really didn't fit the music but that is a perfect example of emoting based upon emoting and trying to use the story of the 10 year anniversary and anniversary from her first OGM - how nice, what a sentimental story to garner good pr and will It's life. Sell Sell sell.

  14. #29
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I like that her acting or performance is not overwrought like Brian boitano who in one year tried to become artistic. Subtlety is far more sophistictated and difficult. But she is still young and her jumps show it. She will not be able to overcome Kostner or Mao or Yuna. she would need some luck to beat Ashley as well and holdoff suzuki probably but you ver know. If she skates consistently and her pcs rise.
    Skater Boy, I'm calling Julia on the podium. Her performance will only get better, as will her speed and amplitude of her jumps. Plus home country. I just know it will happen. Yuna will obviously win, but Julia might sneak into the silver because Mao still has all her downgrades. I would LOVE LOVE a gold medal for Julia, but Yuna would have to self destruct.

    Team Julia and Averbukh.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    The "Girl in a Red Dress" concept is not Averbukh's original though.

    Kararina Witt 1995
    http://youtu.be/usxGTqh4nLs
    Yes, but Witt was a woman and dressed like a woman - her interpretation was a stretch and she went to the Brian Boitano school of quick dramatic presentation - not good. She really stretched the story like her stretcy lace top. Not good.

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