Moves You'd Love To See Certain Skaters Perform

What moves would you love to see certain skaters perform? I was thinking of Arutunian's comments about pushing Michelle to try different things. What do you think she is realisticly capable of? And not just Michelle, but what about other skaters? I realize some don't have the ability to be as limber or as technically proficient as others, but still it is an interesting idea. What would you like to see your favorites doing? I'll start with Michelle and Sasha and see how things progress.

Michelle: I'd love to see her try some complicated jump entrances. She has beautiful split jumps and I think it would be interesting to see her try a split - triple toe loop (Nicole Bobek had a fabulous one!). Perhaps even an Ena Bauer into a triple salchow or double axel (which I think she might have done earlier in her career). I also think Michelle is capable of doing either some extremely fast or difficult footwork into some of her jumps (I'm thinking something like Paul Wylie's "Henry V" from Albertville, the footwork into the triple toe at the end!). As for spins, I'd love to see her experiment with some new positions and combos. I'd die for a catchfoot layback (Anne-Patrice), but I'm not sure if Michelle is flexible enough.

Sasha: What a beautiful spread eagle this girl has! I know she has issues with her jumps at times, but when she does get it together I'd love to see a spread eagle into a double axel. Also, I believe Sasha could do a beautiful split - triple toe. Sasha's spins are wonderful and she has really done some innovative things with positions this year, but I'd like to see a full Biellmann. Has she ever done one? If not, do you feel she is capable? I'd rather see that than the BC.

Good thread, Bronze........I've never seen Sasha do a split jump, I think it's called a falling leaf....she has magnificent Russian splits, but I've never seen the other..........Dustin, has she ever done one during a performance before?

Ryan Jahnke briefly does a spread eagle during his long.....I think he has the ability, but more importantly, the line to extend that move and make it as beautiful as Brian's and Paul's.........

I love Michelle's drop leg layback spin, but I would like to see her vary her spins.........

You all know I love Michael Weiss, but I think he needs to vary his arm "presentation" moves more....they seem very stiff.....

Johnny Weiss has magnificent presence on the ice, much like Robin Cousins's.......I would love to see him do a skid spiral and hold the leg extension the way Robin did...............42

A pure defined lutz, a triple that is.

Joe

You all know I love Michael Weiss, but I think he needs to vary his arm "presentation" moves more....they seem very stiff.....

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how about a new choreographer? Just to see if he's capable of something entirely new... I don't think Lisa can do much more for him!

Great topic BronzeisGolden (love it, no lie)!

It immediately brings to mind some of my most treasured memories of Sarah Hughes skating. Btw shine , if you're out there, this one's for you.......meaning that IMHO Sarah's skating was more about creating exquisite moves & lovely positions (with beauty & joy)........as opposed to Oksana Baiul's skating, which IMHO was more about skating with soul & expressing herself through music & becoming as one with the music (so much so that one couldn't tell where the music began & the skater ended & vice-versa, JMHO). As you can see, I've been thinking about our previous conversation (btw both of the aforementioned skaters are all-time favorites of mine, as is Sonja Henie).

Back on topic, I'd absolutely love for someone like Sasha Cohen, Carolina Kostner, or Miki Ando (notice they're all my favorites, lol) to recreate some of my most treasured memories of Sarah Hughes skating. Of course adding their own imprint to make it their own:

1. back spiral into 3turns into 3R (as Sarah did during her last season with her D&C program).
2. forward spiral into 3T or 2A (done by Sarah during the 2001/02 season, at the very end of her program, specifically @ Skate Canada & GPF).
3. forward spiral into 3turns into 3R (ditto except during the middle of her program).
4. 2axel into 3T sequence (ah, exquisite, opened her program with it @ 2002 GPF)!
5. entire Turandot Program, as done @ 2001/02 Pro-Am, never again to be repeated (innovative combo. spin that was oh-so-lovely, as well as that unique spiral near the end where she resembled a gazelle)!

***Note: all this remembering has made me somewhat nostalgic; think I'll dust off some of my old tapes & watch them over again; though I usually prefer not to do so b/c I think constant rewatching of something so precious loses the magic of the first time seeing it. JMHO.***

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. Oops, I'd love it if Sasha Cohen would be the first ever to do an upside down Biellmann......first choice would be Lucinda Ruh btw......but seeing as her poor body has suffered enough, I'd like Sasha to do so while she' still young & fresh.

"Harry Potter fans must have felt that alchemy was somehow involved. The girl in the lavender dress was moving it seemed without effort. She was flawless, she was brilliant." - Jim McKay commenting upon Sarah Hughes 2002 Olympic FS.

MODIFIED TO ADD: love this topic so much needed to add some more comments:

First off, I'm pretty sure Sasha Cohen has done an Ina Bauer into either a 2A or triple jump (likewise Spread Eagle into the aforementioned moves). And, yes, I'm almost 100% sure she has done a Split Falling Leaf as well. All w/impeccable & exquisite form. Not to mention all the new & innovative moves she has created ~ my most favorite being the blur scratch spin w/the arm in a V-type position ~ but most of all the new ending Swan Spin (ala innovative half Biellmann) that she did @ this year's Nationals (had me in tears, truly looked like something a swan would do; haven't seen something like that since Oksana Baiul). ***Note: btw I have no doubt whatsoever that if she wanted to, Sasha Cohen could do a full Biellmann (without question). My hope is that she'll do so, better yet an upside down one!***

Also, wish someone would do half walleys like Sarah Hughes almost always did throughout her programs. Likewise, my favorite combo. spin of Sarah's (btw she excelled in spins) was the one she did @ 2000 Worlds, where she went from an exquisite camel spin into an inside-outside edge (btw only she & Sasha Cohen have been able to do this thus far) into a perfect classic layback into a half Biellmann catchfoot spin w/innovative arm position (moved me to tears). Ah, what memories ~ Sarah's lovely long elegant limbs made her spins even more unbelievably exquisite than was thought humanly possible ~ simply gorgeous...

For those of us that are not as "in technik" as others, is there a site that lists some common in-betweens? Or could someone pick some out from this year's programs? Sorry if this request counts as an "added topic."

InsecureEdge

I agree that a falling leaf/split jump into a 3toe or 2axel would be a GREAT move for Michelle. It used to be on of Kristi Yamaguchi's signature moves if you watch her programs from '91 and '92.

I have seen Sasha do an Ina Bauer into a 2axel -- sort of. But she takes two or three strokes in between the Bauer and the 2axel. I'd like to see her master an Ina Bauer DIRECTLY into a 2axel, as Roz Sumners used to do.

Peggy Fleming used to do a spreadeagle/2axel/spreadeagle. So I'm sure that if Sasha did it, Peggy would swell with pride that Sasha was doing "her" move.

Sheesh Nadine, as if I'm not already missing Sarah enough lately. You're making me verklempt, dear. (I've told a couple people who speak to her occasionally that she's much missed. But she seems to be distancing herself from skating so much right now, not certain she even wants to have many people say that.)

Anyway, I just wanted to toss out one thought right now. It's not one move, per se, but I've said elsewhere I'd like to see Sasha try choreo that has a modern/jazz feel to it, something to classic Broadway or jazz music. I think this would force her to stretch herself (no pun intended) musically, dance-wise, in terms of her general expression.

Good thoughts here, people.

Like Todds triple axel the height he gets and also his spinning it never seem like he has the traveling problem. IMO his back scratch and sit spin are the best.

Ogre Mage:

Karen Magunessen did a magnificent Falling leaf - first time I ever saw the jump. She was awesome.

Nadine said:

P.S. Oops, I'd love it if Sasha Cohen would be the first ever to do an upside down Biellmann......first choice would be Lucinda Ruh

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Your posts are very informative, and interesting to read, Nadine.

One question I have, what is an "upside down Biellmann?"

registered said:

Your posts are very informative, and interesting to read, Nadine.

One question I have, what is an "upside down Biellmann?"

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Lol, registered (btw thanks for the compliment)!

Actually it's a move that has never been done before.......except in my head .........but which I have fantasized about for quite some time now. Btw, Denise Biellman (along w/Lucinda Ruh) remain my all-time favorite spinners. Not to mention that the Biellmann Spin by itself is the most gorgeous spin I have ever been fortunate enough to lay eyes upon (no lie), which is why I would like for it to be taken even one step further ~ i.e. do an upside down one ~ meaning bending all the way backwards (btw goes without saying one must be unbelievably flexible to start with), grab the spinning leg, while the free leg is pointed heavenward (this is the time where we need more emoticons).

Denise Biellmann has long been a favorite skater of mine (no lie).......wish she would've won the gold @ the 1980 Olympics.......and would've if figures had been eliminated, especially as I've been told she did win the FS. What a great representative she has been for the sport ~ she can still land triples at the age of 41! *clapping* And all of this to go with her fabulous spins & wonderful presentation. How happy was I when she experienced a resurgence of her career in the mid 1990s, and even beat an all-time favorite of mine (aka Oksana Baiul) several times during this period at a variety of pro. competitions.

***Note: a couple of classic Biellmann performances that I treasure are On Golden Pond, Lenny Kravitz Haunting Song (sorry can't recall the name), & Tribal Drums. Definitely must-sees for those not familiar with this exceptionally GREAT skater.***

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. Thanks for the update, NortherLite, much appreciated (no lie). Ah, how I do miss her & her skating. ^(

Nadine said:

Actually it's a move that has never been done before.......except in my head .........but which I have fantasized about for quite some time now. I would like for it to be taken even one step further ~ i.e. do an upside down one ~ meaning bending all the way backwards (btw goes without saying one must be unbelievably flexible to start with), grab the spinning leg, while the free leg is pointed heavenward (this is the time where we need more emoticons).

(

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Thanks for answering my question, Nadine. But my, oh my, I don't think spinning in such position is possible. And it's not simply the question flexibility, I can't quite imagine maintaining a balance, while being bent all the way backwards and rotating at the same time. On top of that, losing a balance, while in this position may result in the most unpleasant fall, should a skater tip over backwards, she'll crash flat on her face... Am I wrong here

In 2001 when Sasha withdrew from Nationals, it was announced that she had a stress fracture of one of her lumbar vertebrae. She took time off for it to heal, but these things can still be problematic years later. I don't know if it still bothers her, but if it does, it might be the reason why she doesn't do a traditional Biellmann spin, much less the upside down Biellmann.

Because she has the flexibility and strength to hold the leg position, I'd like to see Sasha do a spiral with the free leg extended to the side and the body tlted away from the leg. It's sometimes called a "star" position. Though it would be difficult to get a deep edge on it, it could just be a transitional move and not part of the spiral sequence.

For Michelle, I agree with Bronze, that she could do some amazing footwork into her jumps. Michelle's jumps are so amazingly centered, I'd like to see her do some of the things both Bronze and Nadine suggested from Sarah's programs.

In terms of overall choreography, there are two programs and one skater's approach to choreography I'd like to see emulated by Michelle and Sasha--in their own way, of course. In 1998, Paul Wylie did a program called "Bach" choreographed by Lar Lubovitch. He did it with SOI and also at An Evening of Championship Skating. With Paul's beautiful line and flow and Lubovitch's artist's ability to put simple moves together in compelling ways, I found it unforgettable. I'm not sure of the year, but I think it was '96 or '97 when Kurt Browning choreographed "Mercutio" to Prokofiiev's "Rome and Juliet" for himself. His performance of it at the Canadian Open was spectacular. You could see Sonia's influence in the balletic moves, and it included one of my all time favorite Kurt moves--spread eagle directly into 3sal-1/2loop-3toe.

The last is the way Ilia Kulik approaches choreographing his own programs. Not everyone is interested in nor have the ability to choreograph for themselves or others, but what I like about Kulik's choreography is that he takes traditional moves and alters them in a way to make them new and exciting. The "Flying Kulik" is really just a deathdrop without changing legs and without the drop. Once he did a 2Axel directly into a spin, as in staying on the landing leg and spinning on it. Things like that.

The Paul, Kurt, and Ilia examples are what I'd like to see more of. I don't know if that's moves or choreography, but for me they overlap anyway. Great thread. Should we collect all the suggestions at the end and send them to Michelle and Sasha? I'm sure Robin Wagner and Nikolai Morosov would really appreciate our help It's still fun though.
Rgirl

Rgirl said:

Once he did a 2Axel directly into a spin, as in staying on the landing leg and spinning on it. Things like that.

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Doing a jump and landing in a spin is somehting that a lot of skaters do in training. They land in a back scratch spin. I haven't done that myself but I assume it's got something to do with making sure they're rotating in the right air position. They also often do a jump in the middle of a spin - e.g. doing a forward spin (BI edge), jumping up and rotating a few times (e.g. like a double or triple salchow) and landing in a back scratch spin. I think it's good for training when they're working on the jumps. It looks great, I'd love to see elite skaters incorporating it into their LP, rather than just leaving it in practice. I've also seen footage of Dick Button doing an axel and landing in a sit spin - another thing that would be great to see in competitions these days. I just wonder how that'd be marked under COP, seeing as it doesn't have the traditional exit of a jump.

Moves I'd like to see

Sasha: She can do a full Biellmann. At IFSC, when she first debuted "Swan Lake", she did a MITF that was a spiral in a straight line with her leg in a full Biellmann (She had some trouble getting up into the position, which is probably why she only did it for that competition). I personally would like to see her bring back that jaw-dropping Charlotte spiral. Or, even better, find a way to turn that Charlotte into a spin in that position. She's also done a MITF where she skates a full, large circle with her leg in the "Sasha skid spiral" position, which might be nice to see again, if only in exhibition.

MK: Definitely more footwork and entrances into jumps. She used to do an ina bauer, step into 3loop. We know she can do a triple-triple, but maybe a triple-1/2 loop-triple consistantlywould be nice. You have more possibilities for entrances with that one. Some spin variations would be nice too; maybe a broken leg sit spin, a half sit (like Todd Eldredge) or a cannonball sit (like Yags in Man in the Iron Mask). She used to do a half Biellmann, but it was never very stretched out. Maybe a half Biellmann like the one Volchkova does. She could also do with a catch-foot lay back. Not like AP, but she could pull off one like Slutskaya or Sebestyen. There was a US skater named Deanna Stellato that did a upright catch-foot in an attitude derriere position that MK could adopt beautifully. Also, (though we all know her spiral sequence doesn't need anything), there was a skid spiral that Bonaly used to do where she would do a split on the ice. Perhaps MK could try that

Jeff Buttle: Don't you think he could do a good layback or catch foot layback? Anyone? Bueller....Bueller?

Sandhu: One word, Charlotte. Just once, I'd like to see it.


VDP (Hey, he's one of my favorites): Two handed y-spin like Rudy Gallindo. It would work much better that the layback he tries to do now