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Thread: 3rd Russian Ice Dance Spot

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    3rd Russian Ice Dance Spot

    Assuming Bobrova/Soloviev and Ilinykh/Katsalapov get 2 of the 3 spots, who does everyone think will get the 3rd? Despite being on the World team the last two seasons, I don't see Riazanova/Tkachenko being locked in for that 3rd spot, even if they are coached by Igor.

    I'm thinking one of the following (in no particular order): Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Riazanova/Tkachenko, Stepanova/Bukin, Monko/Khaliavin, or Pushkash/Guerreiro.

    What does everyone thinking? Will it come down to who places 3rd at Nationals? I'm very curious to hear everyone's opinions, since R/T are not guaranteed that spot; it seems to be fairly open.

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    I wasn't impressed by what I saw of Stepanova / Bukin at SC or Sinitsina / Zhiganshin at NHK. Pushkash / Guerreiro would probably do a lot better if they skated for Australia, because they didn't even get a GP this year. Monko / Khaliavin seem to be the most likely candidates to contest for the #3 slot since they're the only other second-echelon team to get two GPs. We will see them at TEB this week; next week they go head-to-head vs. Riazanova /Tkachenko.

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    S/z Had a horrible SD that ruined their NHK but they work hard and have had good results and were superior to I/k on levels even with their disaster mistake. They can get the third spot because they are a good pair.

    I just think it will be r/t because they are far better than I/k on levels and should be able to keep the spot because they work hard.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Does it ever surprise anyone at how these outstanding Russian dancers who win Junior Worlds just disappear when they hit seniors? Stepanova & Bukin were so dominant in juniors that I thought they would make a few waves in seniors this year, but no way so far. Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, Monko & Khaliavin, both teams junior world champions, and just thrashing around. Why aren't these kids getting the choreo to show off their abilities?

    I'm fairly sure R&T will get the slot again this year.

    Do any of you think either I&K or B&S will retire after Olympics/Worlds this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Does it ever surprise anyone at how these outstanding Russian dancers who win Junior Worlds just disappear when they hit seniors? Stepanova & Bukin were so dominant in juniors that I thought they would make a few waves in seniors this year, but no way so far. Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, Monko & Khaliavin, both teams junior world champions, and just thrashing around. Why aren't these kids getting the choreo to show off their abilities?

    I'm fairly sure R&T will get the slot again this year.

    Do any of you think either I&K or B&S will retire after Olympics/Worlds this year?
    I think R/T are getting it. M/K isn't getting the attention from Zhulin this season, which says a lot. I also think there will be some kind of team reshuffle after Sochi. Riazanova might want to get a new partner (would love to see her with Khaliavin).

    I can understand why junior teams (barring the Shibs in that one year) feel it's not their time to climb up the ranks and decide to put in less effort because if anything, they need to peak four years later, not now. Going to Sochi and finishing 14th isn't going to get them anywhere. Ice dance is a different field after every Olympics. That being said, I did not love either S/Z or S/B in juniors. Both teams lack chemistry. Yanovskaya/Mozgov is the most promising. They are finally showing some passion this season.

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Does it ever surprise anyone at how these outstanding Russian dancers who win Junior Worlds just disappear when they hit seniors? Stepanova & Bukin were so dominant in juniors that I thought they would make a few waves in seniors this year, but no way so far. Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, Monko & Khaliavin, both teams junior world champions, and just thrashing around. Why aren't these kids getting the choreo to show off their abilities?

    I'm fairly sure R&T will get the slot again this year.

    Do any of you think either I&K or B&S will retire after Olympics/Worlds this year?
    Yes I LOVED Sinitsina & Zhiganshin in Juniors and had SUCH high hopes for them, but they didn't even get 2 GP slots this year and they have really I think declined since their Junior days.

    I doubt B/S or I/K will retire after Olympics/Worlds but I suppose you never know. I'd think they'd both be hungry to go on and hopefully be leaders or at least toward the very top of the pack next quad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Does it ever surprise anyone at how these outstanding Russian dancers who win Junior Worlds just disappear when they hit seniors? Stepanova & Bukin were so dominant in juniors that I thought they would make a few waves in seniors this year, but no way so far. Sinitsina & Zhiganshin, Monko & Khaliavin, both teams junior world champions, and just thrashing around. Why aren't these kids getting the choreo to show off their abilities?

    I'm fairly sure R&T will get the slot again this year.

    Do any of you think either I&K or B&S will retire after Olympics/Worlds this year?
    I agree that it is strange that Russian teams dominate the JGP then fade away once they move up to seniors. IMO the problem may be the limitations of coaching and choreography in Russia. Homegrown teams learn good basics, but their development stalls at some point.

    I doubt if I/K and B/S will retire after Sochi, because they are both young---19/22 and 23/24 respectively. Russia wants an Olympic medal in dance in both 2014 and 2018 and until the younger teams start showing more promise, they will encourage their top teams to stay in.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I think Russia really needs to rethink its strategy in handling senior ice dancers. It's ironic that so many of the coaches training Americans & Canadians (and half the rest of the world) in the US & Canada are Russian, and that Russia itself is not doing as well.

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    Very interesting questions.

    Obviously the senior dance system is horrible garbage. But maybe they don't change anything from 3.5 minutes to 4 minutes in training.

    Why do the jr teams stink in Russian nationals? Well Russian nationals have been locked bs 1 ik 2 rt 3 for 3 years now!

    Why do the jr teams new to senior events stink in non Russia international events? Maybe the reasons I and others listed above.

    Maybe they Don't change any methods that work in Jrs. Obviously something works at jr level but that level is total garbage in seniors and all russian teams are garbage.

    All good Russian coaching talent is in detroit teaching Americans and Canadians just non Russians.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post

    All good Russian coaching talent is in detroit teaching Americans and Canadians just non Russians.
    It isn't like Shpilband won't take Russian kids-he's happy to do so, and has provided tech advice to several couples, and has worked with Gorshkov the coach. He's long said he would like to start with a Russian team at the junior level. I don't know why the Russ Fed doesn't take him up on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    It isn't like Shpilband won't take Russian kids-he's happy to do so, and has provided tech advice to several couples, and has worked with Gorshkov the coach. He's long said he would like to start with a Russian team at the junior level. I don't know why the Russ Fed doesn't take him up on it.
    Ice dance being the easiest discipline in figure skating and without any jumps needed but levels play such an important part , this is where they fall short of imo,
    they don't have enough home grown specialist or are mostly working abroad/immigrated (e.g. North America ) after the 1990's

    the reason probably they are eager to get home grown success like the ladies now but seems ice dance hasn't caught up the success yet on the senior level
    probably wont change unless they learn to muster the CoP for Ice Dance or get new specialists at home

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Ice dance being the easiest discipline in figure skating and without any jumps needed but levels play such an important part , this is where they fall short of imo,
    they don't have enough home grown specialist or are mostly working abroad/immigrated (e.g. North America ) after the 1990's
    Ice dancing is very very different than the other disciplines, but I think it is fairly ignorant to think it is easiest. A much different, equally challenging skill set is required.

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    Yes! Why are all the ice dance technical level people in russia total garbage? Why are they All so bad at their jobs? Maybe it is not them but the way they train the levels and programs. People would always be like that Russian has the best jumps and all the jumps but they never train the whole program so they can't do them all. Maybe its like that with dance training. Get a level 4 step and spin but never do it in a run-through.

    Spiliband in America does runthroghs. Maybe that's just a big no no to the Russian federation and they will never have a coach bash their training tradition with a Russia team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    Ice dancing is very very different than the other disciplines, but I think it is fairly ignorant to think it is easiest. A much different, equally challenging skill set is required.
    Ice Dance has no jumps and you see most Russian juniors are interested in ladies and pairs
    Ice Dance relies heavily in levels + lifts with the New CoP, I dont think russia has grasped to this idea at all while in North American with their specialists have been been keen to max the Cop.

    In short they need more specialists and understanding of Ice Dance CoP

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    gmeyers, yes I am sure there is a "tradition" involved.


    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Ice dance being the easiest discipline in figure skating and without any jumps needed but levels play such an important part , this is where they fall short of imo,
    they don't have enough home grown specialist or are mostly working abroad/immigrated (e.g. North America ) after the 1990's

    the reason probably they are eager to get home grown success like the ladies now but seems ice dance hasn't caught up the success yet on the senior level
    probably wont change unless they learn to muster the CoP for Ice Dance or get new specialists at home
    sky fly, Perhaps the Russian fed agrees with you that dance is the easiest--and that is their big mistake.

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