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Thread: Jenny Kirk article

  1. #16
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    I agree with the Idleracer. Besides the Ladies ( and APM is not on the World's team, BTW) the US team really does not have any other possible medallist(s).

    Baring some unforeseen injury or a disaster, here's the breakdown:

    Pairs: The US pairs are pathetic, whereas the Russian team has T&M, who should medal. P&T may get lucky too, but they should be in the top 6. States would be lucky to place somebody in the top 10 there.

    Guys: Russians have Plushenko who will medal, US may get Weiss in the top 5.

    Ladies: US wins here, but I would not bet on more than 2 medals.

    Dance: N&K will medal, B&A may get lucky with a top 5 finish.

    Total so far: US - 2 expected medals, Russia - 3 expected medals. Three beats two, doesn't it?

    China could win two medals, Canada may get 2 as well. Japan may not get more than 1. Russian team does look as the strongest, even w/o Irina.

    Yana

  2. #17
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    Hi Mathman,

    Catching up on reading some of my old posts & came across your question (sorry for the belated reply)...

    Originally posted by Mathman

    Nadine, about the Zayak rule, what if a skater does a 3T/3T combination, and then later does a 3T as a single jump. Is that a violation?
    Yes, unfortunately, it is.........one cannot perform any triple jump more than twice in a program........and even then, if performing two triple jumps of the same kind, at least one or all must be in combination. Btw, only three combos. or sequences are allowed in the FS, no matter if they're with doubles or triples.

    Take for example Sarah Hughes FS @ the 2002 Olympics:

    2A
    3S/3R
    3Z/2T
    3F
    3T/3R
    3T

    She performed the maximum of three combos., two of them triple-triples, with the 3R acting as the second jump in both cases. And the other repeated triple - the 3T - was performed solo & also as part of a combo. Hope that makes sense & thanks for the question.

    Peace & Love, Nadine

  3. #18
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    Yes it does. Thanks for the answer.

    That's a blueprint for an Olympic Gold Medal performance. Ladies headed for Torino, take note! I wonder if anyone has scored Sarah's perfromance under CoP scoring, just for fun?

    Mathman

  4. #19
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    I was thinking about skipping COI this year.



    They added her to the tour. I am going, I hope she will stop at my city.

  5. #20
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this thread is about Jenny or related items.

    St L..Blues - While I appreciate your Russian favorites, I, personally don't see the russians as so dominating as they were in the Olys (except for Ladies, where the Russians fall far short of a medal - maybe not even in the top ten.). Although they did win most medals in DC Worlds, their only gold was Plush.
    I see them winning both Men and Dance rather easily but in Dance, the Bulgarians are on their heels. If Plush melts I think he will be held up anyway. The pairs are Chinese and the Ladies are USA or Japan. So, imo, no more gold for the Russians and not absolutely definite.

    As to the Ladies in general, the USA has the stockpile of Ladies that are not even eligible for international competition. No Russian field of Lady skaters can approach that strnegth. In spite of all the bruhaha of Russian Ballet, they don't make the cut in Ladies Figure Skating. I'm not saying they can't improve but I am saying as of now, no way for the Russian Ladies.

    If any posters are Russophiles I would suggest you stick withj Plush and the Dance.

    As for Jenny Kirk. She's a good skater as well as a good competitive skater. She is one of many many talented US Ladies.

    Joe

  6. #21
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    Joe, I was not saying that the Russian team is the strongest amongst all other Russian teams. I meant that amongst other national teams, Russian team has a potential to win the MOST medals. That would make it the strongest, IMO.

    Even if the Bulgarians (and by the way, Maxim is Russian) win the gold, there is no way N&K will not medal. Same for the pairs: T&M should get some kind of medal. Medals in 3 fields is not too shabby, I think.

    I would never dispute the strength and the depth of US ladies. But the truth is, after Kwan, Cohen, Kirk (who is wonderful), etc.. there are no other SURE THING medal contenders.

    Also, with all the depth in the ladies field, when was the last time US swept the podium at the Worlds?

    Cheers, Yana

  7. #22
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    Yana - forgive me for jumping to conclusions, and I do agree that the Russians have the 2004 team to win the most medals at worlds.

    However, I have to disagree with you on the US Ladies who are not yet contenders for Worlds competitions. The US has a lot of talent other than the top three looking for the Olys I believe the US Ladies have won at least one medal in every Olympic contest since Tenley Albright (except the year of the airplane disaster). No other country can say that. I do not think ANY country has ever had a clean sweek in Ladies FS.

    As for Clean Sweeps in Ladies - Russia has not been able to do what Japan has done, i.e., develop a grand interest in Ladies FS. The upcoming contest will not be easy to call. IMO, there will be two skaters from either Japan or the US and one skater from the other. I doubt there will be any other countries represented up there. And to predict who will be on the podium and be correct? Not easy.

    Cheers - Joe

  8. #23
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    Hi Joe,

    I couldn't agree with you more on the subject of Russian ladies. But it is a well known fact that Russian Fed. 's main focus always has been on dance and pairs, ladies was never their strength. Only recently they had some success. I can only think of the late Kira Ivanova who achieved some success on the international level prior to Irina and Maria. But so deep is the arsenal of pairs and dance skaters in Russia that they end up switching countries to get a chance to go to Olympics, Worlds, etc. No doubt, US benifited greatly from it - Peter, Gorsha, Denis Petukhov. France can't complain either!

    On the other hand, recent 4CC results would argue with your position on the depth of US ladies. Both Japan and US sent their teams B, but US claimed only the bronze. On the grand Prix scene, Beatrissa Liang was the only one to medal I think (apart from Sasha and Jenny of course). So I would stand by my claim that besides the top three, there is no sure thing medal contender at the Worlds level. Having said that, I would agree that the top 3 in the States are still one of the best in the World.

    I think we may see Julia S. as the dark horse at the worlds, though.

    Yana

  9. #24
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    The Hungarian ladies team is very strong with Sebasteyn, and the real dark horse is Victoria Pavuk! And Poth did very well at COR this year but will not be at World's.

    Don't forget second dark horse, ITA Kostner, who is slowly putting her skating back together.

    I think the Japanese ladies' team has the greatest depth right now, but U.S. depth is very good still; not everybody makes it out of the U.S. and this year there have been a lot of injuries this year.

    Pairs-everyone in the world not Chinese is in trouble. US particularly. We will be lucky to get top 10 and qualify 2 for next year.

    Russia, if Irina does not recover, and Volchkova and Nelidina stay retired, are hanging on the single hope of Sokolova, with the possibility of Soldatova straightening out her citizenship issues of Belarus vs. Russia. This does not look to be a great worlds for them. or next year either. Overall, they will field the strongest team at World's, because they have medal contenders in all disciplines, but the depth in all disciplines is getting shallower and shallower.

    The US swept the ladies podium in 1991 (date?) with Kristi, Tanya, and Nancy doing the deed. Not since, though. And not this year.

    And that's a good thing! There are better and better skaters everywhere in the world now. It is harder and harder for one country to dominate skating. Not the US, not Russia. Hurray!

  10. #25
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    St L.. Blues - Indeed, Russia came on the scene in Pairs with the Protopopovs. To me, that was the beginning of Russian dominance in Pairs, and it has been remarkable. When posters make a general statement that Russian skaters are the 'best' because of their ballet training, I have to laugh when I look at the struggle for Irina to get a style, and Nelidina who, well, you know. As for Butryskaya, they never taught her to pliet. VV has good form. Other than Abt, I never saw a ballet influence in the Russian men, although, I do not normally look for it. It's not necessary. Yet the ladies in the Pairs do have the ballet influence and it is quiteappealing with the right music.

    The Dance, I agree as far as a 'stockpile' of talent is concerned. Their study of Torvahl and Dean as well as the Duschesnays got the Russians interested in perfection and passion. They no longer dance those cute slavic dances in competition. The Russians continue in that fashion. Nothing wrong with that.

    I think Peter and Dennis are in the US for more than competition, but that's just my opinion. Our best team happens to be a combo of Puerto Rico and Canada.

    OTE]Originally posted by DORISPULASKI

    I think the Japanese ladies' team has the greatest depth right now, but U.S. depth is very good still; not everybody makes it out of the U.S. and this year there have been a lot of injuries this year.

    The US swept the ladies podium in 1991 (date?) with Kristi, Tanya, and Nancy doing the deed. Not since, though. And not this year.

    And that's a good thing! There are better and better skaters everywhere in the world now. It is harder and harder for one country to dominate skating. Not the US, not Russia. Hurray!
    [/QUOTE]

    ITA, Doris.Nothing wrong with mixing the best with the best. American ballet has greatly improved with the influx of Russian dancers and the Russian ballet is no longer stuck in the 19th century but going progressively modern. If you really love figure skating, the nationality or the ethnic background of a skater or team is not important. Tosca lives for Art as well as love

    Oh yes before I sign off. We must look to the Canadians who may be starting a stockpile of Ladies figure skaters. They have a little gem in Cynthia Phaneouf. She may get that ball rolling.

    Joe

  11. #26
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    Well, said Joe.

    Few things though - Benjamin Agosto is American, not Puerto Rican (which is American territory too, right??). His Father is from Puerto Rico, as revealed by one of the fluff pieces on ABC. Ben was born in the States - makes him an American.


    I am not sure about Peter, but Denis could not find a partner in Russia, so he looked elsewhere. Same with Marina Anissina. Sometimes coaches pair up skaters from different countries and then decide where the students will have the greatest chance. I think that's how Belbin and Agasto ended up skating for US (thanks, ABC).

    Watched Cynthia Phaneuf on ABC yesterday and she did nothing for me. Sure, her jumps were solid but IMO, she severely lacked in presentation and even choreography. I would wait till next season to form a better opinion.

    Yana

  12. #27
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    Yana - I'm not overwhelmed with Cythia either. Her technical talent will be solid in a few years as well as improving on her pesenttion. Her potential is obvious which will be a role madel for young Canadian skaters.

    But I was never overwhelmed with any teenybopper excet MK, and even with MK, I was still waiting for what she is giving me now at a mature age. I never saw anything special in Tara's skating, then and now. I never look for a gold medal at age 16, I look for potential.

    In Russian Ladies figure skating, I see potential for tricks but for me the artistry is totally lacking. With strong skaters in Dance and Pairs, they shuld be producing an array offine young lady skaters.

    The Japanes Ladies got Fumie as a roll model and then came Shizuka on the scene. With two potential gold medalists, the team began a stockpile of potential gold medalists.

    Joe

  13. #28
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    Originally posted by STL_Blues_fan
    I agree with the Idleracer. Besides the Ladies ( and APM is not on the World's team, BTW) the US team really does not have any other possible medallist(s).

    Baring some unforeseen injury or a disaster, here's the breakdown:

    Pairs: The US pairs are pathetic, whereas the Russian team has T&M, who should medal. P&T may get lucky too, but they should be in the top 6. States would be lucky to place somebody in the top 10 there.

    Guys: Russians have Plushenko who will medal, US may get Weiss in the top 5.

    Ladies: US wins here, but I would not bet on more than 2 medals.

    Dance: N&K will medal, B&A may get lucky with a top 5 finish.

    Total so far: US - 2 expected medals, Russia - 3 expected medals. Three beats two, doesn't it?

    China could win two medals, Canada may get 2 as well. Japan may not get more than 1. Russian team does look as the strongest, even w/o Irina.

    Yana
    I have to disagree with you , B/A have a very strong chance to win the bronze, they will battle it out with G/G. I just cant see them (B/A) finishing no lower than 4th. If Weiss skates like he did at nationals with a clean SP with a quad I could see him on the podium and if Johnny skates like he did at nationals with a quad I could see him in the top 5 or maybe with a bronze medal. The way I see it is that Russia has a chance at 3 medals as does the U.S. , CHINA 2 , JPN and Canada with one, I just cant see Canada winnning a medal other than mens. You have to remember something about the U.S. ladies this year, AP, BEBE had injuries. Angela is comig back from a major one and its her confindence that is holding her back right now. Alot of the current depth is in the junior ranks (IE Meissiner , Taylor)and many more.

  14. #29
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    Since Idleracer's famous post has been referred to twice now, maybe someone should point out that what Idle said was merely that the Russian ladies were the prettiest. Idle has a thing for Russian ladies, LOL.

    That having been said, after Europeans I now think that Sokolova has a pretty good chance of making the podium, as do Sebestyen and Liashenko. I dont think it will be all U.S. and Japan at all.

    Mathman

  15. #30
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    Yes, I do have a thing for Russian ladies But after watching the Four Continents competition yesterday, I must say that while Angela Nikodinov's constant doubling of all her jumps doesn't seem to change much from year to year, she does seem to get prettier and prettier as time goes by. :D

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