Oksana Baiul- what is her standing in the sport and how is she today? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Oksana Baiul- what is her standing in the sport and how is she today?

Puchi

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Lu actually did 7 triples in the Lillehammer LP including 2 triple lutzes, and just putting a hand down on her triple flip, so 6 clean triples including 2 triple lutzes. A 2nd triple lutz would negate Nancy doing the easiest triple-triple in the book, and Lu still had 1 more triple (2 really as well).

Lulu did only six triples. She had planned a 7 triples program, but she doubled the 3toe after the first 3 lutz which was supposed to be a 3-3 combination. After that she landed 2 axel, 3 salchow, 3 loop, 3 lutz, 3 toe, 3 flip (hand down), 2 axel.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
On what basis would you place Lu ahead of Nancy? Both did 5 clean triples, Lu had a bad error on her sixth. Nancy did a 3/3.

Lu was always short on the lutz, that's why her free leg was always so swingy on that particular jump. A lot of the programs of her's on YouTube include post-program replays which show her lutz in slow motion. You don't have to take my word for it, see for yourself.

She was short of "perfect rotation" a lot of the time, sure, but they were fine. She counter-rotated really far on her lutz and jumped UP.

Anyway, I can see placing Chen ahead of Nancy on the basis of the second mark. Her choreography was better and her interpretation had more depth. I wouldn't put her ahead of Kerrigan (or Baiul) in this particular instance, but all of the top 4 ladies were very different and had their merits. Sato had the best basic skating quality of them all, for instance, and her tech mark should have been at least as high as Baiul's. There really wasn't that much separating the 4 of them in these performances.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Lulu did only six triples. She had planned a 7 triples program, but she doubled the 3toe after the first 3 lutz which was supposed to be a 3-3 combination. After that she landed 2 axel, 3 salchow, 3 loop, 3 lutz, 3 toe, 3 flip (hand down), 2 axel.

You are right. I thought she had done a triple salchow out of the double axel at the end. She did it in many other programs, but not that one.

Even her 2 triple lutzes is atleast as valuable as Nancy doing a triple toe-triple combination, and putting a hand down on the triple flip is better than just doing a double IMO. So jump wise, content anyway, she was atleast as strong as Nancy. Although her jumps at that point were smallish without much flow out, and Oksana and Nancy had bigger and better quality jumps. Her choreography and musical interpretation was very strong and underrated. Her spins were much better than the disaster they were in later years, and the top women that year weren't strong spinners anyway, apart from Sato who was a very good one.

I still could easily see Chen and Sato being placed 1st and 2nd (in either order) in the LP but realistically the way judging worked back then, with Sato not in the final flight, and Chen 4th after a mistake in her short program, neither were ever going to be placed higher than they were in the long program. After the short program it was clear the battle for gold was between Baiul and Kerrigan, Sato was out of any medal contention, and Chen was now going to fight for the bronze with Bonaly.
 

wordsworthgirl

Medalist
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
And now they are afraid they might get sued if she were in one of their shows or specials.

Icey, I was thinking exactly the same thing! I wonder if she realized that while this lawsuit might get her some money she's already earned (doubtful but possible) it will probably kill her chances for getting hired in the future!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Erm, with all this litigation talk, are you guys sure you weren't talking about the other "Oksana"?

You're sure it wasn't this Oksana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlxIFrDcJRs

Lordy, I'd forgotten that video. Between the two of those Oksanas, it's hard to tell which one is the most outrageous.

As for Oksana B., it's as if she's two people. Back to the original question, Baiul at sixteen or so, skating her Olympic programs, is an indelible part of Olympic history. The Oksana of today seems to have no connection with the eager girl who is so revered by fans around the world.


By the way, here's a recent article on the other Oksana, Pasha Grishuk. She seems to have settled down and is working hard as a coach in California. Even at her most diva-ish, I always felt that she had the self-discipline that Baiul lacked, and she seems to have proved it by her diligence as a coach to young students. One especially nice thing I remember about her was hearing that as a pro she often traveled with one of her Olympic gold medals, because fans would ask to see it and she wanted them to have the chance to look at an Olympic medal up close.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/grishuk-380269-ice-skating.html
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I think Oksana Baiul got fame and fortune too quickly for someone her age and with not alot of support to guide her through it. From my perspective, her contribution to the sport was only the Olympics and only because she came out of nowhere to win and had a great backstory. Beyond that - her behavior off the ice was questionable, her weight gain, the loss of her jumps, her behavior off the ice again, and like someone upthread said - her ability to play the blame game. I think she was a very talented and charismatic skater who lost it all pretty quickly! JMO
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think Oksana Baiul got fame and fortune too quickly for someone her age and with not alot of support to guide her through it. From my perspective, her contribution to the sport was only the Olympics and only because she came out of nowhere to win and had a great backstory. Beyond that - her behavior off the ice was questionable, her weight gain, the loss of her jumps, her behavior off the ice again, and like someone upthread said - her ability to play the blame game. I think she was a very talented and charismatic skater who lost it all pretty quickly! JMO

She was still doing lutzes after she retired, so she didn't lose it all right away. Although she is responsible for her behavior, I think we should have some compassion for someone who really did have it tough all her life, even when she was at the top of the sport.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I am not disbelieving this, but do you have a source to back this up, chuckm? Her problems with alcohol are well known as is her DWI. But I have never heard or read of her showing up to practices drunk or missing performances because she was drunk. It appears Golden Skate is very much on the up and up, and unless you can provide a link or source to her failing on showing up to practice or missing performances due to drunkenness it puts Golden Skate into the libel realm. Doris? You would agree?

Unfotunately, her problems are common knowledge.

Longman, Jere (October 16, 1998). "Striving for Recovery from Grip of Alcohol". The New York Times.


http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/16/s...from-grip-of-alcohol.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm

She said she felt ''a lot of pain inside'' and ''pressure'' and she turned to alcohol for consolation. In January 1997, she crashed her Mercedes into a tree and was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol. The charge was later dropped after Baiul met the terms of her probation and completed an alcohol education program.

But her drinking continued and her skating reached an embarrassingly low level. At one point, Baiul said, she suffered a nervous breakdown and was unable to leave her bed. Last May, she was removed from the Champions on Ice tour by the promoter, Tom Collins, who said in an interview that he had been concerned about Baiul's drinking. She entered an alcohol rehabilitation program and remained for two and a half months, she said.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Driving, I didn't mean to imply that I was kicking her to the curb. I just think it's very sad that she finally had some good things happen to her in her life and couldn't control them. Doing a lutz doesn't mean much if you fall on the triple toe or the double axel. I used to hurt watching her try to regain her technical skills, get back in decent physical shape, and stop putting her skate in her mouth. I don't wish Oksana any ill will and I do wish she could get her life back on track permanently. I'm not so sure capitalizing on her Olympic gold medal is the way to do it. Seems like it would just bring more pressure. JMO
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
If Oksana outclassed everyone with her artistry, then she shouldn't have won gold, she should have won silver, behind Katarina, who still had more artistry and feeling in her program than Baiul did. It was just more subtle than Broadway showtunes.

ETA-- With regard to the tale of "Two Oksanas"-- Baiul and Grishuk have actually become FRIENDS! Baiul visited Grishuk in OC last summer.
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
If Oksana outclassed everyone with her artistry, then she shouldn't have won gold, she should have won silver, behind Katarina, who still had more artistry and feeling in her program than Baiul did. It was just more subtle than Broadway showtunes.

Witt didn't have the technical content to even be considered remotedly competitive by that point. Her only clean triples over the 2 programs were 3 triples toes (1 in the short and 2 in the long). She was basically stuck in the 70s technically by then. Baiul atleast had acceptable technical merit for a top skater of the time, even if it wasn't close to the best that night, hence the controversy over her win (along with some who feel her long program that night was perhaps overrated artistically as well). Still you cant compare Baiul who landed a huge triple lutz to open her program to Witt at that point.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Witt didn't have the technical content to even be considered remotedly competitive by that point. Her only clean triples over the 2 programs were 3 triples toes (1 in the short and 2 in the long). She was basically stuck in the 70s technically by then. Baiul atleast had acceptable technical merit for a top skater of the time, even if it wasn't close to the best that night, hence the controversy over her win (along with some who feel her long program that night was perhaps overrated artistically as well). Still you cant compare Baiul who landed a huge triple lutz to open her program to Witt at that point.

I'm not talking about technical. Since people seem obsessed with the fact that they think Baiul was the most artistic lady competing in Lillehammer, I made a case for having Witt, who was the most artistic competing there.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I'm not talking about technical. Since people seem obsessed with the fact that they think Baiul was the most artistic lady competing in Lillehammer, I made a case for having Witt, who was the most artistic competing there.

Nobody is saying a competition should be judged 100% on artistry though. Not even the ones defending Baiul's win. The people defending Baiul's win feel her artistry was superior to Kerrigan by even more than her technical was inferior. It is not like Kerrigan's program was technically stunning when you think about it. Only 5 triples, 2 of them triple toes, no triple flip, and her triple-triple combnation was the easiest one in the book. Obviously you could never say that about Witt who technically was a novice level jumper by then, and only made top 10 due to her artistry, competitiveness, and some generous scores due to her reputation.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
And we have to take into account Baiul's short program, which was very impressive. I prefer it to her long, partly because I found the show tunes overly cutesy and her skating rather fussy. I had no such problems with the short program.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
And we have to take into account Baiul's short program, which was very impressive. I prefer it to her long, partly because I found the show tunes overly cutesy and her skating rather fussy. I had no such problems with the short program.

Her SP is one of my all time favorites programs. There is nothing I would change about the choreography or the music. I didn't like her LP either but I think she did capture the different moods of the music selections.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I was floored by the sp because I'd never seen such a balletic skater doing that music. I recall the camera panning to Jayne Torvill and she was watching with a dropped jaw. I recall Hamilton saying "I have never SEEN ANYONE LIKE HER." bUT HER SP WAS FLAWED, Nancy WAS A NICE COMBO OF ATHLETE, PRESENTATION AND NATURAL BEAUTY. I think many people feel she was robbed. Two great programs after being clubbed. Nancy never gets her due. She was not bendy, but she was a lady out there. I preferred her amateur style to both Kristi and Tonya. Baiul has some very nice skates-or parts there of. It is a shame her drinking added pounds to a changing body. It would have been better for her had she won silver. Everyone blew smoke up her....telling her she was so great. Sadly she left her coach and the Petrenkos-who would have protected her.

Her swee orphan story changed fast-her ego being her downfall. Nancy would have done no different-she had solid parents to keep her grounded-she's quite rich, anyway. But no one ever mentions her as a great skater. She has same Oly medals as Kwan, Slutskaya. I think a couple comments were blown out and people realized she was quite human. The whole ice princess thing is ridiculous. Look at the skewering of Gracie Gold over her dumb but innocent comment. The women are held to standards the men are not. Nancy truly deserved Gold, but she's fine. Oksana never skated another Sp like that again. She had a ball spending her money. Now all the lawsuits-who knows the truth? But I will remember some lovely moments, and she was a gift initially. I wish her well.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Nancy always looked stiff to me, but her carriage and how she moved around the ice reminds me very much of Michelle Kwan. I think she was a little strong than Oksana on technical merit, but only a little because Oksana's spins and footwork were far superior to Nancy's. Oksana to me had better presentation, and the marks reflected that. Given that the American-biased Scott Hamilton was not outraged at all by the result, I think the right skater won gold.
 
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