Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 84

Thread: Oksana Baiul- what is her standing in the sport and how is she today?

  1. #61
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Lu actually did 7 triples in the Lillehammer LP including 2 triple lutzes, and just putting a hand down on her triple flip, so 6 clean triples including 2 triple lutzes. A 2nd triple lutz would negate Nancy doing the easiest triple-triple in the book, and Lu still had 1 more triple (2 really as well).
    Lulu did only six triples. She had planned a 7 triples program, but she doubled the 3toe after the first 3 lutz which was supposed to be a 3-3 combination. After that she landed 2 axel, 3 salchow, 3 loop, 3 lutz, 3 toe, 3 flip (hand down), 2 axel.

  2. #62
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    3,996
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    On what basis would you place Lu ahead of Nancy? Both did 5 clean triples, Lu had a bad error on her sixth. Nancy did a 3/3.

    Lu was always short on the lutz, that's why her free leg was always so swingy on that particular jump. A lot of the programs of her's on YouTube include post-program replays which show her lutz in slow motion. You don't have to take my word for it, see for yourself.
    She was short of "perfect rotation" a lot of the time, sure, but they were fine. She counter-rotated really far on her lutz and jumped UP.

    Anyway, I can see placing Chen ahead of Nancy on the basis of the second mark. Her choreography was better and her interpretation had more depth. I wouldn't put her ahead of Kerrigan (or Baiul) in this particular instance, but all of the top 4 ladies were very different and had their merits. Sato had the best basic skating quality of them all, for instance, and her tech mark should have been at least as high as Baiul's. There really wasn't that much separating the 4 of them in these performances.

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Lulu did only six triples. She had planned a 7 triples program, but she doubled the 3toe after the first 3 lutz which was supposed to be a 3-3 combination. After that she landed 2 axel, 3 salchow, 3 loop, 3 lutz, 3 toe, 3 flip (hand down), 2 axel.
    You are right. I thought she had done a triple salchow out of the double axel at the end. She did it in many other programs, but not that one.

    Even her 2 triple lutzes is atleast as valuable as Nancy doing a triple toe-triple combination, and putting a hand down on the triple flip is better than just doing a double IMO. So jump wise, content anyway, she was atleast as strong as Nancy. Although her jumps at that point were smallish without much flow out, and Oksana and Nancy had bigger and better quality jumps. Her choreography and musical interpretation was very strong and underrated. Her spins were much better than the disaster they were in later years, and the top women that year weren't strong spinners anyway, apart from Sato who was a very good one.

    I still could easily see Chen and Sato being placed 1st and 2nd (in either order) in the LP but realistically the way judging worked back then, with Sato not in the final flight, and Chen 4th after a mistake in her short program, neither were ever going to be placed higher than they were in the long program. After the short program it was clear the battle for gold was between Baiul and Kerrigan, Sato was out of any medal contention, and Chen was now going to fight for the bronze with Bonaly.

  4. #64
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    And now they are afraid they might get sued if she were in one of their shows or specials.
    Icey, I was thinking exactly the same thing! I wonder if she realized that while this lawsuit might get her some money she's already earned (doubtful but possible) it will probably kill her chances for getting hired in the future!

  5. #65
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    101
    Erm, with all this litigation talk, are you guys sure you weren't talking about the other "Oksana"?

    You're sure it wasn't this Oksana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlxIFrDcJRs

  6. #66
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by AllYouDoIsTalk View Post
    Erm, with all this litigation talk, are you guys sure you weren't talking about the other "Oksana"?

    You're sure it wasn't this Oksana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlxIFrDcJRs
    Lordy, I'd forgotten that video. Between the two of those Oksanas, it's hard to tell which one is the most outrageous.

    As for Oksana B., it's as if she's two people. Back to the original question, Baiul at sixteen or so, skating her Olympic programs, is an indelible part of Olympic history. The Oksana of today seems to have no connection with the eager girl who is so revered by fans around the world.


    By the way, here's a recent article on the other Oksana, Pasha Grishuk. She seems to have settled down and is working hard as a coach in California. Even at her most diva-ish, I always felt that she had the self-discipline that Baiul lacked, and she seems to have proved it by her diligence as a coach to young students. One especially nice thing I remember about her was hearing that as a pro she often traveled with one of her Olympic gold medals, because fans would ask to see it and she wanted them to have the chance to look at an Olympic medal up close.

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/g...e-skating.html

  7. #67
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by AllYouDoIsTalk View Post
    Erm, with all this litigation talk, are you guys sure you weren't talking about the other "Oksana"?

    You're sure it wasn't this Oksana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlxIFrDcJRs
    Comments on that video are hilarious.

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,063
    I think Oksana Baiul got fame and fortune too quickly for someone her age and with not alot of support to guide her through it. From my perspective, her contribution to the sport was only the Olympics and only because she came out of nowhere to win and had a great backstory. Beyond that - her behavior off the ice was questionable, her weight gain, the loss of her jumps, her behavior off the ice again, and like someone upthread said - her ability to play the blame game. I think she was a very talented and charismatic skater who lost it all pretty quickly! JMO

  9. #69
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by AllYouDoIsTalk View Post
    Erm, with all this litigation talk, are you guys sure you weren't talking about the other "Oksana"?

    You're sure it wasn't this Oksana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlxIFrDcJRs
    Hahaha if she wasn't a world-class athlete I would think she is on drugs!

  10. #70
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I think Oksana Baiul got fame and fortune too quickly for someone her age and with not alot of support to guide her through it. From my perspective, her contribution to the sport was only the Olympics and only because she came out of nowhere to win and had a great backstory. Beyond that - her behavior off the ice was questionable, her weight gain, the loss of her jumps, her behavior off the ice again, and like someone upthread said - her ability to play the blame game. I think she was a very talented and charismatic skater who lost it all pretty quickly! JMO
    She was still doing lutzes after she retired, so she didn't lose it all right away. Although she is responsible for her behavior, I think we should have some compassion for someone who really did have it tough all her life, even when she was at the top of the sport.

  11. #71
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    15,552
    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I am not disbelieving this, but do you have a source to back this up, chuckm? Her problems with alcohol are well known as is her DWI. But I have never heard or read of her showing up to practices drunk or missing performances because she was drunk. It appears Golden Skate is very much on the up and up, and unless you can provide a link or source to her failing on showing up to practice or missing performances due to drunkenness it puts Golden Skate into the libel realm. Doris? You would agree?
    Unfotunately, her problems are common knowledge.

    Longman, Jere (October 16, 1998). "Striving for Recovery from Grip of Alcohol". The New York Times.


    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/16/sp...anted=2&src=pm

    She said she felt ''a lot of pain inside'' and ''pressure'' and she turned to alcohol for consolation. In January 1997, she crashed her Mercedes into a tree and was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol. The charge was later dropped after Baiul met the terms of her probation and completed an alcohol education program.

    But her drinking continued and her skating reached an embarrassingly low level. At one point, Baiul said, she suffered a nervous breakdown and was unable to leave her bed. Last May, she was removed from the Champions on Ice tour by the promoter, Tom Collins, who said in an interview that he had been concerned about Baiul's drinking. She entered an alcohol rehabilitation program and remained for two and a half months, she said.

  12. #72
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,063
    Driving, I didn't mean to imply that I was kicking her to the curb. I just think it's very sad that she finally had some good things happen to her in her life and couldn't control them. Doing a lutz doesn't mean much if you fall on the triple toe or the double axel. I used to hurt watching her try to regain her technical skills, get back in decent physical shape, and stop putting her skate in her mouth. I don't wish Oksana any ill will and I do wish she could get her life back on track permanently. I'm not so sure capitalizing on her Olympic gold medal is the way to do it. Seems like it would just bring more pressure. JMO

  13. #73
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,092
    If Oksana outclassed everyone with her artistry, then she shouldn't have won gold, she should have won silver, behind Katarina, who still had more artistry and feeling in her program than Baiul did. It was just more subtle than Broadway showtunes.

    ETA-- With regard to the tale of "Two Oksanas"-- Baiul and Grishuk have actually become FRIENDS! Baiul visited Grishuk in OC last summer.
    Last edited by blue dog; 11-14-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  14. #74
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,147
    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    If Oksana outclassed everyone with her artistry, then she shouldn't have won gold, she should have won silver, behind Katarina, who still had more artistry and feeling in her program than Baiul did. It was just more subtle than Broadway showtunes.
    Witt didn't have the technical content to even be considered remotedly competitive by that point. Her only clean triples over the 2 programs were 3 triples toes (1 in the short and 2 in the long). She was basically stuck in the 70s technically by then. Baiul atleast had acceptable technical merit for a top skater of the time, even if it wasn't close to the best that night, hence the controversy over her win (along with some who feel her long program that night was perhaps overrated artistically as well). Still you cant compare Baiul who landed a huge triple lutz to open her program to Witt at that point.

  15. #75
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,092
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Witt didn't have the technical content to even be considered remotedly competitive by that point. Her only clean triples over the 2 programs were 3 triples toes (1 in the short and 2 in the long). She was basically stuck in the 70s technically by then. Baiul atleast had acceptable technical merit for a top skater of the time, even if it wasn't close to the best that night, hence the controversy over her win (along with some who feel her long program that night was perhaps overrated artistically as well). Still you cant compare Baiul who landed a huge triple lutz to open her program to Witt at that point.
    I'm not talking about technical. Since people seem obsessed with the fact that they think Baiul was the most artistic lady competing in Lillehammer, I made a case for having Witt, who was the most artistic competing there.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •