Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: World and Olympic chokers and their opposites

  1. #16
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bible Belt
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    It is a mental game you must win before you even skate.
    Yep, great quote. So I know "choking" has a bad connotation, it's just that anyone who has been competitive in ANY elite endeavor understands that feeling of choking. Hopefully you only feel it once, and then recognize that possibility and block it out. Doesn't matter if it is sports, music, academics, I think it is natural to blow an exam or skate or tennis match.

    I forgot about Todd Eldredge. The quintessential underachiever and you could see it all over his face. It's like he'd get scared and like clockwork would blow that second 3axel into a single, and then try to regroup and go for a 3axel at the end. Too bad he didn't have that precision-like fighting spirit to just nail that second 3axel where it should have been.

    Someone also mentioned Tonya Harding. I don't think she necessarily 'choked'. I think her issues are far deep-rooted and she'd rather slack off/quit/claim injury than risk doing her best and not winning. I felt she was always in search of pity and an excuse. It makes no sense that at Skate America she tore up the competition and was in the very best shape of her life, only to fall to out of shape for the rest of the season. I think Tonya was scared of success and just wanted to be the Tonya everyone pitied because she was abused as a child and grew up dirt poor. I guess that is choking in a way, but she didn't show up to either of her Olympics in tip top shape so not much could be expected from her.

    Choking is different than having a bad performance. I was rooting for Kwan in SLC. Well, I was more Team Sasha, but wanted Kwan to close the circle of history. I don't think she choked. She missed her opening 3toe and couldn't tack on another 3toe, and that was just bad luck. Also with her father as her credentialed coach I'm sure how very little professional tutelage she was getting. She missed the 3flip in both the SP and LP. That wasn't choking, it was just no coaching to get her back into the right technique.

  2. #17
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,578
    I think its a fair term used in every pressure sport-much nicer than headcase used here a lot. Just to get attention to definition. Kwan didn't choke ever really. Debi should have won, had the talent/programs. Major choke-mind boggling at time.

    Todd and Kurt never could perform at biggest event. How about current skaters who may have choked in GP. Agnes is in a sad pattern.

    As far as pairs or Ice dancers, who was known for blowing it?

  3. #18
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    10,637
    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post

    I forgot about Todd Eldredge. The quintessential underachiever and you could see it all over his face. It's like he'd get scared and like clockwork would blow that second 3axel into a single, and then try to regroup and go for a 3axel at the end. Too bad he didn't have that precision-like fighting spirit to just nail that second 3axel where it should have been.
    I think it's a bit harsh to call him the "quintessential underachiever." despite the lack of an Olympic medal, he has accomplished a lot in figure skating (1996 World Champion, 6 time World medalist, 6 time US champ, 5 time Skate America Champ), etc. While I would have loved seeing him win that elusive Olympic medal, he ended his final Olympics (SLC 2002) on a happy note with a very strong free skate (despite that fall on the quad attempt). Too bad he had that fall in his short program there. Had that not happened, I think he would have had a realistic chance of finishing on the podium.

  4. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I think its a fair term used in every pressure sport-much nicer than headcase used here a lot. Just to get attention to definition. Kwan didn't choke ever really. Debi should have won, had the talent/programs. Major choke-mind boggling at time.

    Todd and Kurt never could perform at biggest event. How about current skaters who may have choked in GP. Agnes is in a sad pattern.

    As far as pairs or Ice dancers, who was known for blowing it?
    Kwan was hedging her bets during Olympic times to really full-out choke, if you will; she was always too measured (e.g., recycling a program, deliberately switching a triple jump, etc etc.), too tentative during her Olympic skates. Harsh to say, but it was poetic justice when she lost to Lipinski.

  5. #20
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,578
    I disagree about Kwan. Nagano was a great games for her. She skated great-nothing held back, she just wasn't the jumper Tara was. It was so close.

  6. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I disagree about Kwan. Nagano was a great games for her. She skated great-nothing held back, she just wasn't the jumper Tara was. It was so close.
    Even in Nagano it was obvious, and not to make the ole tired sports cliché again, but in both the SP and FP, you could tell one skated to win and the other skated not to lose-- and we all know which one was which. You could tell from the demeanor throughout those programs.

  7. #22
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    989
    Well I have to disagree about Kurt Browning not being able to compete in the big competitions. His first Olympics in Calgary he came from literally nowhere to take 8th!! His freeskate was thrilling and it was so nice to see someone "new" out there. His second Olympics he had a bad back (compressed disc from jumping???? Can't remember completely) He would have won with his Casablanca in Lilliehammer but for a jump he could do in his sleep - the double axel in his SP. I think it was more bad luck! But winning four World Championships was pretty big!!

    I never liked watching Tara skate. She could jump and that was about it! I doubt she would have won under the new scoring system. But there's something to be said for the Oksana Baiul's and Tara Lipinskis of the world who go into a competition not necessarily favored to do much and just leave it all on the ice. You have to have great appreciation for any athlete that's able to do that.

    I think the saddest case right now is Jeremy Abbott. When he's "on" he's awesome - athletic, graceful, musical (loved his 2012 SP) but he just doesn't seem to get it together.

  8. #23
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,654
    Kurt's back was a slipped disk according to one of the fluff pieces from back then... just watched it on Youtube the other day.

    Kurt had two major mistakes on the jumps and a stumble in his footwork in the SP in 1994 - the flip is the most forgivable I suppose, but the footwork and the 2A were "bonehead" mistakes that most likely came from him obsessing over that flip (it was the first thing out of his mouth coming off the ice about what happened out there).

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    829
    Olympic Chokers: by far the saddest cases would be Kurt Browning and Todd Eldredge. I loved them both and was so deeply saddened by their inability to get Olympic medals. They were both excellent in every other kind of competition- Nationals, Worlds, etc- but could not do it at the Olympics. I will never forget the front page of the NYT with the photo of Todd falling and grasping towards the Olympic rings in the center of the ice. I agree with the poster who said how fortunate it is that they both went on to have successful professional careers. They are head and shoulders above any other Olympic chokers in terms of both their exceptional talent and success everywhere else and the magnitude of their Olympic failures- they were both expected to medal, perhaps win gold, at multiple Olympics and could never put it together on Olympic ice.

    The Opposite of Chokers- is that consistency (ie Katarina Witt) or is that people who came through and did great in a surprising way (Wylie, Manley)?

  10. #25
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    829
    and I'd say the two biggest Worlds chokers out there right now are Jeremy Abbott and Alyssa Cizny. Jeremy is also an Olympic choker- he won Nationals in 2010 with 8 triples and a quad and was expected to win a medal at those Olympics. I hope he can do well at this year's Olympics as he is so incredibly gifted and beautiful.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    989
    I just watched Jeremy's LP at NHK. He can be absolutely brilliant at times and then make dumb mistakes. But he powered through and I thought he looked really good for most of the program. A short interview afterwards where he said he has to work on the quad now. He looked alot better than he did the last few times I saw him but skateluvr's comment about winning the mental game before you even skate personifies Jeremy's challenges. I would really like to see Jeremy put it together at Nats and the Olys....it would certainly shake things up at the top!

    Alyssa was painful to watch because I was always waiting for her to fall.

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    829
    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I just watched Jeremy's LP at NHK. He can be absolutely brilliant at times and then make dumb mistakes. But he powered through and I thought he looked really good for most of the program. A short interview afterwards where he said he has to work on the quad now. He looked alot better than he did the last few times I saw him but skateluvr's comment about winning the mental game before you even skate personifies Jeremy's challenges. I would really like to see Jeremy put it together at Nats and the Olys....it would certainly shake things up at the top!

    Alyssa was painful to watch because I was always waiting for her to fall.
    I felt the same way about Alyssa.

    Couldn't agree more re Jeremy putting it together at Natls and the Olympics. and I'm glad to hear abt that interview. His free skate at NHK made me cry- such a vast improvement from Skate Canada and most important, a joyful, uninhibited skate from him. When he is on, he is one of the best ever.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •