Men's Short Program: 2013 NHK Trophy

Blades of Passion · Nov 8, 2013

A quad is 3.25 rotations in the air. A triple (aside from axel) is 2.25 rotations in the air. Jumps spend the first half turn of rotation on the ice and there is a quarter turn of leeway on the landing. They weren't cheated past the allowable amount.

flaneur · Nov 8, 2013

samson said:
The mens event is proving to be as unpredictable as ever! After Skate Canada I was looking at the Grand Prix standings and I realized we might not have any locks into the final until we hit Paris. That may prove to be true once this competition is said and done.

If the results stay this after the free then the Top three in standings for the Grand Prix will be:
1. Daisuke (24 points)
2. Adam (22 points)
3. Nobu (22 points)

The tie breaker would go to Adam for placing second in Skate America while Nobu would only have two third place finishes.

And then we will still have Patrick, Han Yan, Tatsuki Machida, Yuzuru, Kovtun, and Javi left to do their second grand prix.

We also have Evgeny and Joubert in showing up in Russia as possible spoilers, even though they aren't in contention for a spot at the final. I have no idea what kind of shape they are in, but as they say... the ice is slippery.

Either way GREAT work from the men I've seen so far and CAN'T WAIT to watch the other short programs and see how the free skate plays out!!

After this event that would leave Dai with a strong chance of making the final and would definitely put Adam on the bubble, IF the final results remain the same as right now. Adam's free skate is absolutely fabulous this year. If he skates it clean I could see him moving up. But I would imagine he will definitely need both his axels for that to happen, and perhaps some struggles from the men over him.

Haha. I was just going to ask what the skaters would need to place to get to the GPF. So thanks!

Moment · Nov 8, 2013

Net rotation theory is obsolete and never made any sense to begin with. You have to land backwards (or sideways which means 1/4 short) from the flight path to have your jump fully rotated

Blades of Passion · Nov 8, 2013

Moment said:
Net rotation theory is obsolete and never made any sense to begin with.

Yeah, 2+2=4 makes no sense whatsoever. You're brilliant.

hurrah · Nov 8, 2013

Mrs. P said:
Hm...was thinking that Yuzuru will probably make GPF, but now realize he's facing Yan Han and Patrick Chan at TEB....

Oh, sorry. I deleted my post. I realized something. So the selection comes down to:

1. the winner of Nationals
2. chosen out of 2nd and 3rd place finishers of Nationals and top podium winner of GPF
3. chosen by considering details stated in no. 2 as well as World Ranking and top 3 ISU season's best scores

Since Dai just got 95.55, and no Japanese skater will be able to match that SP score, all he has to do is give a decent FP tomorrow or at GPF, and he'll go to Olympics unless he completely bombs at Nationals and doesn't place within top 3.

Even if Machida is the only Japanese skater to go to GPF, chances are he won't podium, so... the selection of which Japanese men go to Olympics will really come down to Nationals.

samson · Nov 8, 2013

flaneur said:
Haha. I was just going to ask what the skaters would need to place to get to the GPF. So thanks!

No problem! Glad I could help.

Shayuki · Nov 8, 2013

Using that logic, wasn't Abbott's quad fully rotated?

Maybe I'm confused with what a rotation is but I thought it was 3.75 --

Blades of Passion · Nov 8, 2013

Nope. A < Quad is 3.01 to 3.24 rotations in the air. A << quad is 3.0 or less rotations (aka landing forward) in the air. Abbot had the 1/2 turn of pre-rotation on the ice, which is standard, and then landed a bit short of that point. He was less than 3 revolutions in the air.

Ziggy · Nov 8, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
A quad is 3.25 rotations in the air. A triple (aside from axel) is 2.25 rotations in the air. Jumps spend the first half turn of rotation on the ice and there is a quarter turn of leeway on the landing. They weren't cheated past the allowable amount.

The loop does but that's because you only use the edge to take off without any free leg assistance. Salchow and toe-loop will have a bit of pre-rotation (usually under 1/4). Flip and lutz when done properly will have minimal pre-rotation.

Pre-rotation is not relevant, though. As Moment said, net rotation theory doesn't apply because different jumps have different degrees of natural pre-rotation (which is the part of correct jump technique). It's not even looked at unless it's very apparent and egregious and technical panel cannot use slo-mo to check it. Jumps are supposed to be landed backwards from the take-off point and that is what the technical panel is reviewing. The take-off point being the take-off starting and not the blade fully leaving the ice as the blade doesn't leave the ice in one sudden movement - it is gradual (again, depending on the jump).

Blades of Passion said:
Yeah, 2+2=4 makes no sense whatsoever. You're brilliant.

To expand on what I wrote above, it's not that simple because whilst the landing looks exactly the same for all of the jumps (blade backwards, put the toe-pick in and then gradually the rest of blade until all of it touches the ice) - meaning that it can be held to the same standard regardless of the jump - the take-offs are very different depending on particular jump. The step in, the edge, the direction you are skating, the movement of the free leg - all of those differ and because of that on some jumps (like the flip) the blade will leave the ice pretty much straight away and on other others (like the loop), that movement will be more gradual and some pre-rotation on the ice will be necessary.

Sara · Nov 8, 2013

What a great competition!! I'm so happy for Dai! Quite surprising that Javi scored so well.. :think: Regarding the Americans, I'm excited to see Adam beating Max and Jeremy. But I don't get it why Max has such a high PCS compared to Adam? Aaron's score should be way lower, his skating skills are terrible.

The camera work in this competition is excellent, loving the replays! Remember how it was like in CoC a week ago? :no:

Sjs5572 · Nov 8, 2013

Shayuki said:
Using that logic, wasn't Abbott's quad fully rotated?

Maybe I'm confused with what a rotation is but I thought it was 3.75 --

As Meryl Davis would say, it's just a matter of semantics.

Mao88 · Nov 8, 2013

MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS (By Starting Order)

Warm-Up Group 1

1. Adam RIPPON (USA) Short Program
2. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) Short Program
3. Max AARON (USA) Short Program, 2nd Copy
4. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) Short Program, 2nd Copy

Warm-Up Group 2

5. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) Short Program
6. Nobunari ODA (JPN) Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Takahito MURA (JPN) Short Program
8. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
9. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

seniorita · Nov 8, 2013

Daisuke :yay:!

demarinis5 · Nov 8, 2013

Dai was brilliant, just brilliant!!! :bow:

Thank you Mao88 for the videos!

museksk8r · Nov 8, 2013

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Adam Rippon, but how in the world was his step sequence not marked down with -GOE for stumbling out at the end (he received many +2 and +1 GOE in fact)? Very mysterious and

!

ManyCairns · Nov 8, 2013

seniorita said:
Daisuke :yay:!

I haven't even watched the vids yes, but this is how I feel! looks like he brought down the house!

MaiKatze · Nov 8, 2013

rallycairn said:
I haven't even watched the vids yes, but this is how I feel! looks like he brought down the house!

I wrote this in the Fan Fest Thread - I think his killer instinct has awoken. I'm so happy with his performance. It just shows that you can never count him out.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 8, 2013

samson said:
Hmmmm that concept and costume for Javi are sort of lost on me right now. But maybe it will grow on me in time.

Ok. Go Dai!

To "get" Satan Takes a Holiday, refer to Robin Cousins about 25 years ago. STAH is a program he developed as a professional and IMO will always be the definitive skating version of this music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a7sSuPpmcc

Li'Kitsu · Nov 8, 2013

hurrah said:
Since Dai just got 95.55, and no Japanese skater will be able to match that SP score, all he has to do is give a decent FP tomorrow or at GPF, and he'll go to Olympics unless he completely bombs at Nationals and doesn't place within top 3.

Dunno how likely it is to happen, but Yuzuru can match a 95+, he already did twice last season. Given that the scores overall seem to have gotten up a little again too, maybe he'd even score a little above Dai's score here.

And I'm pretty sure if Dai makes top 3 at nats he's going to the Olympics no matter what. He can bomb pretty badly, but he's one of the two guys the JSF has who are podium and even OGM contenders (and I'd even say two of the four favorites). If he makes the GPF by winning NHK here, I guess he'll even get picked for the team if he bombs nats.

Yuzuru and Dai were the favorites for the olympic team pre-season, and they still are.

Skater Boy · Nov 8, 2013

Ziggy said:
Oh they ratified Takahashi's quad clearly, given his scores. Can't wait for the protocols, some very surprising results!

Dai was amazing though I think a bit overmarked if not for the quad - iffy!

Men's Short Program: 2013 NHK Trophy

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

flaneur

Moment

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

hurrah

samson

Shayuki

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Ziggy

Sara

Sjs5572

Mao88

seniorita

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

museksk8r

ManyCairns

MaiKatze

bigsisjiejie

Li'Kitsu

Skater Boy

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