Men's Short Program: 2013 NHK Trophy | Page 13 | Golden Skate

Men's Short Program: 2013 NHK Trophy

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
damn, i think almost everyone had him off the podium here.
men is so freaking unpredictable. because their jumps carry massive BV, even the best skater can be overtaken by a so so skater with big jumps.

Exactly. exciting yes indeed because anyone can with such BV differentials. This is why I think Fernandez with two different quads has the advantage over Chan - mind you Dai has two sort of quads but they are kind of iffy.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Has the definition of spin officially changed in figure skating? So many of them are so slow I really don't see how they qualify as spins unless the definition has changed. The definition of "spin" in the dictionary certainly hasn't change.
 

jan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
I agree. Takahashi received a few two's and three's for his spins and they were tremendously slow with poor positions.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think I might be the only one that’s not into Oda and feel like if Dai skates skate clean (ist) he deserves a score way above a clean Oda. I don’t know why….I don’t know if it’s because Oda still looks like a little boy although he is a man.

* However I do believe Oda has some beautiful knees and smooth jumps when landed.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I think I might be the only one that’s not into Oda and feel like if Dai skates skate clean (ist) he deserves a score way above a clean Oda. I don’t know why….I don’t know if it’s because Oda still looks like a little boy although he is a man.

I'm fine with Dai having 5+ gap on PCS on Oda. But the TES gap is what I find more questionable. That should have been closer, IMO.
 

daisies

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Adam Rippon, but how in the world was his step sequence not marked down with -GOE for stumbling out at the end (he received many +2 and +1 GOE in fact)? Very mysterious and :confused:!
Not mysterious at all. The required reduction for a stumble in the step sequence is -1 to -2, and the final GOE does not have to be in the minuses. Therefore, it is absolutely plausible for Adam to have received a +2 -- if his GOE started out as +3 and the judges reduced by -1, then that’s a +2. IMO it was definitely a +3 before the stumble, but I would've reduced it by -2 since it was a pretty significant stumble, giving it a final GOE of +1. But all the judges were in range of the reduction requirement.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP)

Music: Satan Takes a Holiday

Striped pants. Black and houndstooth shirt w/ red and yellow details

4S - stepout, hands down
3A - solid
FUSp
3Lz+3T
CSSp
StSq
CCop

Big mistake on the quad, be the rest was solid. I think it's enough for the lead, now that Oda got hosed

SP: 43.86+40.92=84.78, 1st out of 8


:eek: ooooo that's risky, skating to a piece that Robin Cousins made iconic.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The loop does but that's because you only use the edge to take off without any free leg assistance. Salchow and toe-loop will have a bit of pre-rotation (usually under 1/4).

Not true at all. Salchow has just as much pre-rotation on the skating leg as a loop (a full half turn) and a toeloop has that much on the picking leg as well. Skaters often pre-rotate MORE than that amount on the salchow and toeloop especially (particularly toeloops on the back end of other jumps), which needs to be accounted for when determining the rotation of the jump. Lutz and Flip can both pre-rotate a half turn on the picking foot as well. Ideal technique on the Flip and Lutz jumps means you won't pre-rotate that much, but there's nothing particularly "wrong" with it.

Pre-rotation is not relevant, though.

YES, IT IS. Everything exists within a circle. Where you start and where you end is all relative.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
My favourite programmes were those skated by Takahashi and Fernandez. I think that Fernandez will be just amazing in this programme with a bit more mileage. He has such a wonderful dancing quality... Takahashi is Takahashi, just wonderful!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Poor Oda indeed! His quad on replay was clearly rotated enough, and Daisuke's on replay was clearly under-rotated. I know Dai's had his troubles recently and the tech specialist maybe threw him a bone, but there was no reason for Oda's to be <.

Lovely program by Takahashi and certainly his best skate in a while, but Takahashi should be only about 3 or 4 points ahead of Oda, not 13. Certainly shouldn't have earned a PB for that skate.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Max AARON (USA)

Music: Historia de un amor by Perez Prado

4S+2T - hand down on salchow
3Lz - hands down (fall)
CCoSp
3A - solid
FCSp
StSq
CSSp

Shame about the two jump mistakes

SP: 40.65+36.56-1.00=76.21 (SB), in 2nd out of 3

According to the little box, his TES is lower than from Skate America....predicting 75ish.

ETA: 76+ season's best. But he's capable of higher!

Ugh, none of these performances seem to be coming together for Max quite yet. Also I really wish the music didn't speed up right as he's doing his spin? But I like this program on him, and I hope to see it skated cleanly.

Aside from his SB, another silver lining for Max is that he gained a little bit of ground in each of his components compared to Skate America.
Plus he seems to have a pattern of placing higher in the FS than the SP. #Rise #NoBackingDown
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Poor Oda indeed! His quad on replay was clearly rotated enough, and Daisuke's on replay was clearly under-rotated. I know Dai's had his troubles recently and the tech specialist maybe threw him a bone, but there was no reason for Oda's to be <.

Lovely program by Takahashi and certainly his best skate in a while, but Takahashi should be only about 3 or 4 points ahead of Oda, not 13. Certainly shouldn't have earned a PB for that skate.

Heck, I'd say keep the PCS as is and give him a 5 point gap. I say I would be fine if Oda got 88 and Takahashi got 93. I really feel they were stingy on the +GOE with Oda and really generous with Takahashi.

I feel Takahashi is the reverse of what we usually see, high TES generating higher PCS scores. Takahashi seems to captivate everyone with the second mark so much, people are inclined to give out those +1s and +2s! :laugh:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I would have probably had Oda at about 86 points and Takahashi at 90 (as mentioned his +2 and +3's on his spins were rather generous). Most certainly I would have Takahashi several points ahead of Oda on PCS, but the technical mark should have gone to Oda.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Costume of Javier is really busy, I m distracted. I love Oda reloaded, I dont want Kozuka to miss Sochi but it looks like oda is really fighting for it!
 

caitie

Medalist
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Not mysterious at all. The required reduction for a stumble in the step sequence is -1 to -2, and the final GOE does not have to be in the minuses. Therefore, it is absolutely plausible for Adam to have received a +2 -- if his GOE started out as +3 and the judges reduced by -1, then that’s a +2. IMO it was definitely a +3 before the stumble, but I would've reduced it by -2 since it was a pretty significant stumble, giving it a final GOE of +1. But all the judges were in range of the reduction requirement.

Interesting. Thank you for explaining that!
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
Poor Oda indeed! His quad on replay was clearly rotated enough, and Daisuke's on replay was clearly under-rotated. I know Dai's had his troubles recently and the tech specialist maybe threw him a bone, but there was no reason for Oda's to be <.

Lovely program by Takahashi and certainly his best skate in a while, but Takahashi should be only about 3 or 4 points ahead of Oda, not 13. Certainly shouldn't have earned a PB for that skate.

Fully agree. I watched the replay over and over again, and that jump was fully rotated, no questions about it. The technical controller should give him 6 points back. I can understand the edge call on the Lutz, but it's extremely slight.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Interesting that Oda's quad was downgraded but on replay clearly rotated, and that Dai's was apparently under-rotated on replay but I guess no surprise that this was flubbed by the judges. I think politics and rep play into the scoring too, per usual.

Marveloso for Dai, clearly a master skater in many ways. I think the fact he always skates well in Japan helped him here. But the score I think is overly high, especially considering the under-rotation some feel there was on his quad on replays. I shouldn't be surprised, but again the judging leaves so much to be desired.

Clearly, Adam Rippon is a skater with much better skating and presentation skills than Mura and Oda, and more musicality and artistry than Javier Fernandez. Adam was *** heavily underscored on PCS! If Adam can just master that quad cleanly and not make any other minor or major mistakes, he should definitely move up in the scoring (and he could have placed second or third here in the sp, IMHO). Fernandez made a mistake and his sp is underwhelming (the costume confusing). Javi skated the program with no real relation to the music. It's a shame he picked that piece of music too without being able to come close to doing it justice (since Robin Cousins skated a memorable iconic exhibition to it). I agree there is reason to have Javi slightly behind both Oda and Rippon, and at the least he should not be ahead of them by 2 points. But once again, rep points come into play. Oda has great knees and he's a jumping machine, but he was not skating to or even coming close to interpreting the music. Oda's PCS skills are over-rated IMO because of his great jumping ability.

I also think that Max Aaron deserved some higher scores to reflect the improvement he is showing in presentation. It is just not being recognized. It seems that he needs to focus more on landing those quads to get due respect. IMHO, Mura and Voronov are not that much better than Max re presentation skills. The judges pick and choose erratically on those PCS categories. The scoring needs to be reformed.

Figure skating rips my heart out with its excesses and ineptitudes re scoring.
 
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