Men's Free Skate: 2013 NHK Trophy | Page 13 | Golden Skate

Men's Free Skate: 2013 NHK Trophy

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I managed to watch most of the men's. I cried watching Jeremy's performance most. I also cried watching Dai's performance, but less.
I really liked Adam's program and he's looking like a different skater.

I am not sure how to take your comments. They ere nice programs and great emotion from Dai but cry worthy? I guess some cry at the drop of a hat - what i mean is have different standards or sensitivities.I do not mean to be rude - imho cry worthy programs are rare and even rarer 2 in an event without the top skaters for the most part.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
I am not sure how to take your comments. They ere nice programs and great emotion from Dai but cry worthy? I guess some cry at the drop of a hat - what i mean is have different standards or sensitivities.I do not mean to be rude - imho cry worthy programs are rare and even rarer 2 in an event without the top skaters for the most part.

Well, some people are more prone to tears. But any competition where Takahashi, Abbott and Rippon skate well is HEAVEN.
 

Antiloquy

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
I am not sure how to take your comments. They ere nice programs and great emotion from Dai but cry worthy? I guess some cry at the drop of a hat - what i mean is have different standards or sensitivities.I do not mean to be rude - imho cry worthy programs are rare and even rarer 2 in an event without the top skaters for the most part.

Maybe so, but this is also the last GP for both Daisuke and Jeremy, and probably Oda. I'm really happy Dai won his last NHK.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Oh well, can't argue with the placements. Nice to see Jeremy medal, but it was Adam who actually went for the quads and got the rotations, but in the end, Adam paid heavily for his nerves and tightness (e.g., on footwork in the sp; and on the camel spin and one of his 3 axel attempts in the fp). In any case, I really hate the quad. I don't care about that extra revolution at the expense of everything else. But kudos to all these skaters who work so hard to do the impossible and still try to maintain a semblance of what figure skating at its essence is about.

When Oda first came on the scene, I did enjoy watching him more than I do now. He doesn't really skate to the music and he doesn't have much depth or artistry. Fine he's a great jumper with magic knees and great height (and a bouncy lightness) with deep edges, but even then he does not have aesthetically pleasing lines. Mainly I find his telegraphing (especially at the beginning of his NHK freeskate) very distracting, and as someone else mentioned, he skates a lot on two feet and he doesn't have good transitions. Once again, his fp scores at NHK were overly high on PCS. He has some good skating skills, but for me (outside of a few of his skates over the years), Oda has never put it all together. I don't find him to be a complete skater, although he is better than Mura in many aspects. I like Kozuka better of these three Japanese men. And I even like Machida more than Oda (I know: sacrilege!). In Oda's case, his tech skills count for a lot and carry him far. I find Oda to be very overrated as an expressive skater in terms of presentation.

Very nice to see Dai coming back so well here, especially in his final NHK appearance. I doubt much of what we've seen so far this season will be a good predictor of what's going to ultimately happen in Sochi.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Why Nichol choreo for Takahashi's final FS? :(

He had incredible flow, very elegant movement, I loved how jumps (other than quad and axel) were integrated into the program, with short entries preceded by transitions but that program is just so bland. He makes it work but he deserves something more creative.

Yeah, this program is so forgettable. :cry:
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Oh well, can't argue with the placements. Nice to see Jeremy medal, but it was Adam who actually went for the quads and got the rotations, but in the end, Adam paid heavily for his nerves and tightness (e.g., on footwork in the sp; and on the camel spin and one of his 3 axel attempts in the fp). In any case, I really hate the quad. I don't care about that extra revolution at the expense of everything else. But kudos to all these skaters who work so hard to do the impossible and still try to maintain a semblance of what figure skating at its essence is about.

When Oda first came on the scene, I did enjoy watching him more than I do now. He doesn't really skate to the music and he doesn't have much depth or artistry. Fine he's a great jumper with magic knees and great height (and a bouncy lightness) with deep edges, but even then he does not have aesthetically pleasing lines. Mainly I find his telegraphing (especially at the beginning of his NHK freeskate) very distracting, and as someone else mentioned, he skates a lot on two feet and he doesn't have good transitions. Once again, his fp scores at NHK were overly high on PCS. He has some good skating skills, but for me (outside of a few of his skates over the years), Oda has never put it all together. I don't find him to be a complete skater, although he is better than Mura in many aspects. I like Kozuka better of these three Japanese men. And I even like Machida more than Oda (I know: sacrilege!). In Oda's case, his tech skills count for a lot and carry him far. I find Oda to be very overrated as an expressive skater in terms of presentation.

Very nice to see Dai coming back so well here, especially in his final NHK appearance. I doubt much of what we've seen so far this season will be a good predictor of what's going to ultimately happen in Sochi.

I disgaree about Oda's PCs being "overly high". If Javier can get 80+ in PCs for his skating, I think Oda deserves the same!

When I first saw Oda in 2010, I thought he was a very expressive skater - must've been the Charlie Chaplin LP. But imho, I would consider Oda a pretty decent skater both in technical ability, and artistic expression. Maybe I am just a minority, but when he has the right programs and packaging, Oda is very entertaining!
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Alright thought it would be fun to do a quick calculation of where the men are at in standings for the Grand Prix.

I think it will be:

1. Daisuke (24 points)
2. Nobunari (24 points)
3. Adam (22 points)
4. Jeremy (16 points)
5. Takahiko (16 points)
6. Tatsuki (15 points)
7. Patrick (15 points)
8. Han Yan (15 points)
9. Max (15 points)
10. Maxim (13 points)
11. Yuzuru (13 points)
12. Jason (7 points)
13. Javier (7 points)
14. Richard (7 points)
15. Joshua (7 points)

According to the official and complete GP standings at http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2013/gpsmen.htm:

- The correct order (based on the second tie-breaker):
4 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN (457.87)
5 Jeremy ABBOTT USA (453.36)​

- Michal BREZINA CZE (9 points) is btwn HANYU and BROWN​

(And I am guessing that you purposely omitted Denis Ten (9 points) b/c he does not have another GP at which to earn more points -- after his WD from Skate America.)
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS (By Starting Order) - Updated

Warm-Up Group 1

1. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) Free Skate
2. Max AARON (USA) Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) Free Skate
4. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) Free Skate, 2nd Copy

Warm-Up Group 2

5. Takahito MURA (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
6. Adam RIPPON (USA) Free Skate, 2nd Copy
7. Nobunari ODA (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
8. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) Free Skate, 2nd Copy
9. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy, 6th Copy, Interview

Medal Ceremony

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Isn't this the last Grand Prix Series Event for all of Takahashi, Oda, and Abbott? I know Dai and Nobu still have a shot at the Final. Seeing Jeremy cry on the podium got me choked up and teary-eyed. :cry: It's so bittersweet; I really feel that these great skaters have been a part of my life and seeing them get ready to depart is a bit like friends graduating from college. The Sochi Olympic Games are going to be a large going away party for many of the world's greatest skaters. It's going to be such a highly emotional event for skating fans! :cry:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
They are showing the competition on American TV right now. Takahashi looks wonderful, so confident. Rippon's program is gorgeous, and he seems to have grown steadier this year. And Jeremy gave a good performance. So much more satisfying than last week's competition in China!
 

wordsworthgirl

Medalist
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Isn't this the last Grand Prix Series Event for all of Takahashi, Oda, and Abbott? I know Dai and Nobu still have a shot at the Final. Seeing Jeremy cry on the podium got me choked up and teary-eyed. :cry: It's so bittersweet; I really feel that these great skaters have been a part of my life and seeing them get ready to depart is a bit like friends graduating from college. The Sochi Olympic Games are going to be a large going away party for many of the world's greatest skaters. It's going to be such a highly emotional event for skating fans! :cry:

Beautifully put! I began crying about 30-45 seconds from the end of Jeremy's program when I saw how happy and at peace he looked, and then when he sank to the ice crying it killed me. What a huge relief and burden lifted off his shoulders. All I want for him is to be able to express himself and give beautiful performances. Medals don't matter. Skating well does. And Dai was absolutely incredible- another comeback. I think this NHK was a very emotional event with two great skaters coming back from being essentially written off for the season and Dai and Oda skating their last NHK.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I agree that Adam's music is problematic, because it's impossible to interpret properly when you are trying to muscle out Quads, Triple Axels, and Triple Lutzes with overhand arms. His choreography is filled with uninteresting, superficially sensitive movements, instead of an actual sensitivity to the music. As a result, his presentation comes off as rather meek and bland.

Jeremy's music is less problematic, although there a couple annoying differences in it from the original track he skated to a couple years ago. This new version actually has some extra electric guitar embellishments, which throw off the mood of the piece. The bigger problem, though, is how watered down his choreography is. He used to do a beautiful transition into and out of his 3Flip, transition seamlessly into his step sequence, and then at the end of the step sequence he had powerfully expressive choreography that made the program build so well up into a Triple Axel. Now he is trying to do the 3Flip in combo and it hinders the flow of the program because of the extra time and setup/completion focus that it takes. Furrthmore, in the new version of the program, he throws a 2Axel at the end of his step sequence instead of the powerful choreography that used to be in that spot.

Then, later on in Jeremy's program, he just stands around doing nothing after the choreography sequence. There used to be a jump there, but he moved it earlier in the program to make it all easier. There's also another bit of choreography in the mid part of his program that was simplified. The end result of all these changes is that program loses its driving force and unified idea. His new costume also doesn't convey the same level of gravitas as what he had in 2012. Not sure what he is thinking with those grey pants paired with a relatively bright top; these details matter.

He should really go back to the program just as it was in 2012, with a slightly modified jump layout to provide more consistency (2Axel at the end of the program is more workable than the 3Sal he used to try there, while keeping the same effect).

4Toe
3Axel+3Toe
CSSp4
3Flip
StSq4
----
3Axel
3Lutz+3Toe
3Loop
3Sal+2Toe+2Loop
FUSp4 (should really change to FCCoSp4 if he can, though)
ChSq
2Axel
CCoSp4
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Blades, I really agree with all of your comments about Jeremy and your ideas for his program layout. Sadly, this LP, which was once so beautiful in the 2012 season, has lost some of its luster with these 2014 season adjustments. I wish there was some way your ideas could reach Team Abbott and those amendments could be made. Jeremy has admitted to the fact that COP spins, particularly post-2010 season when further changes were introduced to achieve higher spin levels, take a lot of stamina for him to perform and he has said that they are the toughest elements, along with the quad, in skating for him. I can only guess that these rest periods in his program now are there because the spins just require so much effort from him and they exhaust him at his advanced age by skating standards.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
^ Well, he only does one spin before virtually all of the jumps are completed...
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I disgaree about Oda's PCs being "overly high". If Javier can get 80+ in PCs for his skating, I think Oda deserves the same!

When I first saw Oda in 2010, I thought he was a very expressive skater - must've been the Charlie Chaplin LP. But imho, I would consider Oda a pretty decent skater both in technical ability, and artistic expression. Maybe I am just a minority, but when he has the right programs and packaging, Oda is very entertaining!

Hey, good for you that you enjoy Oda so much. His great jumping ability (amazing spring and soft knees) is undeniable. He has great flow over the ice, and definitely his Fed and coaching team have done much over the years to try and package his skills to his best advantage. Still, despite his talent and infectious smile, I'm not won over by his skating. But the fact judges love his jumping ability and thus tend toward giving him high PCS is what makes the difference, no matter what fans think, pro or con.

ITA with Johnny Weir's honest and fair commentary re Oda on NBC's NHK broadcast.
 
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