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Thread: Asada's 3A: underrotated or not?

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    Asada's 3A: underrotated or not?

    Asada's 3A has been controversial as some of Russian coaches and journalists pointed out.

    At the 2013 NHK Trophy, Asada's 3A in her SP seemed underrotated, but there was no underrotation call.

    Thus, I scrutinized the slomo of her 3A by the help of the NHK's wonderful camera work.

    1. start, start 2

    2. takeoff

    3. landing 1, landing 2, landing 3, landing 4, landing 5, landing 6

    The skid is considered an acceptable technique as long as it does not make the skater pre-rotate the jump. When we look at the points Asada starts to skid, takes off and lands, her 3A in the NHK Trophy was definitely underrotated.

    Really hope the definition of axel jump will be maintained.

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    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    great a thread for smear campaign

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    another propaganda thread from S Korea?

    I think the JSF has made a deal with the ISU.
    That level of 3A is acceptable and it will be the case until Sochi.

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    Even british eurosport guys caught this from not slow motion but real time. Judges should catch too. Not only Asada's 3A was underrotated. Gold's 3Lo looked underrotated too. I think judges only using underrotation for lower ranked skaters.

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    And? I see 3 revolutions, maybe 5-10 degrees under at most. 1/4 turn skid, 1/4 turn on landing. I don't see the problem. Evan Lysacek has gotten his far-more-cheated 3A ratified even when it was underrotated. There are rules for the minimum requirements for rotations to get a jump ratified and as far as I'm concerned, Asada met them just barely. If it's unclear, you give the skater the benefit of the doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Even british eurosport guys caught this from not slow motion but real time. Judges should catch too. Not only Asada's 3A was underrotated. Gold's 3Lo looked underrotated too. I think judges only using underrotation for lower ranked skaters.
    The british Eurosport guys also said that the judges should let her have it, and not call it a UR...
    For some reason you forget to say this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TryMeLater View Post
    The british Eurosport guys also said that the judges should let her have it, and not call it a UR...
    For some reason you forget to say this...
    He didn't say why he changed his mind, did he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    He didn't say why he changed his mind, did he?
    Why on earth are people so dense? He said it was underrotated, but still enough around to get credit. You get credit if the landing is under a 1/4-turn short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Why on earth are people so dense? He said it was underrotated, but still enough around to get credit. You get credit if the landing is under a 1/4-turn short.
    Sorry If I'm stupid I can't understand difference between underrotated but enough underrotated to get credit, underrotated but not enough underrotated to get credit. I only know underrotated. In my defence they didn't say 1/4 rotation or anything like this.

    I didn't know we can't criticize Mao. I learned now.

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    ...or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Sorry If I'm stupid I can't understand difference between underrotated but enough underrotated to get credit, underrotated but not enough underrotated to get credit. I only know underrotated. In my defence they didn't say 1/4 rotation or anything like this.

    I didn't know we can't criticize Mao. I learned now.

    If a jump is 2.75 of revolution, it is considered 'not underrotated'. It is not three revolutions so someone may say that it is a bit short but still get credit. Is there anything hard to understand on that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    I can't understand difference between underrotated but enough underrotated to get credit, underrotated but not enough underrotated to get credit.
    0 to 90 degrees under-rotated = OK (skater receives full base value)
    90 to 180 degrees under-rotated = < (skater receives 70% of base value, rounded to nearest tenth)
    More than 180 degrees under0rotated = << (downgrade. Triple jump is scored as a double.)

    In addition the judges can give negative GOE as they feel appropriate. On Asada's triple Axel in the short program the GOEs were -1, -1, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2. -3. This reflected the judges' individual opinions about the severity of the under-rotation, combined with other errors on the landing (slight two-foot, etc.)

    Ths scoring of this particular jump is absolutely in accordance with the IJS rules -- no controversy at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Sorry If I'm stupid I can't understand difference between underrotated but enough underrotated to get credit, underrotated but not enough underrotated to get credit. I only know underrotated. In my defence they didn't say 1/4 rotation or anything like this.

    I didn't know we can't criticize Mao. I learned now.
    Sorry about being snippy. You are free to criticize any skater you wish. But before calling something a controversy, it's good to check out the rules first.

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    Let's face this: Mao has better rotations than quite a few men's 3A that got justified, including the same event for Dai's. Just because she is a girl and she got the extra scrutiny.

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    I really wish people would stop with the skid=cheat nonsense, There is nothing wrong with the quarter rotation skid on maos 3a take off, it is a perfectly acceptable axel take off. Anyone who says its cheating has clearly got no understanding of jump mechanics, it is almost impossible to do a 3a with no skid, a clean edge take off often results in an axel that tips out of the circle (Adelina Sotnikovas 2a is an example of this) a slight skid on an axel take off is good.

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