Free Dance: 2013 NHK Trophy

rosacotton · Nov 11, 2013

bramweld said:
Wow this grand prix was much more exciting than CoC, looking forward to Paris!!

I agree 100%! Maybe having D/W and/or V/M there really does make a difference!

G/P -- they win the award for most original program of the season. That was incredible. I'll be sad if they are not able to perform this at the Olympics.

I/K -- I thought their Swan Lake a big improvement from Ghost. Have mixed feelings about the program; will be curious to see them become more comfortable with it.

Shibs -- I am so happy with them medaling at both their events. Hope they are encouraged by their performances here, and are able to build on this and make the Olympic team.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

aftertherain said:
I can see up your nose, snooty one.

Well, you know it's the Olympic season when you're putting people on your ignore list at a record speed. I didn't have anyone on my ignore list six months ago. Geez. Now I've got all kinds of ubers up in there.

I've only gotten a chance to see the

top four's FDs and I like all of them. I think the B. ESP commentary team were right about the Shibs and I/K. While the crowd at NHK were immensely supportive, Shibs still need to amp up the energy on the MJ program. It was a bit slower than I'd expected at some points--but perhaps that is due to the required elements that don't exactly match the pace of the music.

I/K were so beautiful. Great chemistry between the two of them. I loved the lifts--but there was something that they lacked for me. Like the B ESP commentators, I didn't really like the long-drawn out "performance" right before their music started. Don't get me wrong, I like the preparation that skaters do to get into their opening poses, but I/K's was just too over-the-top for me. Other than that, it's a shame they didn't hit all their levels.

Everyone has pretty much said what I feel about D/W. I think the crowd at NHK was the crowd that they deserve at every single one of their competitions.

...and comes the self righteous response from the typical D/W uber. You just proved my point.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

Mrs. P said:
Stating preference isn't the same thing as saying who is the best in Ice Dance.

I'm not surprised, for one, that those Russian Ice Dancers mention above prefer Virtue and Moir. After all, V/M, by nature, have many of the qualities valued in Russian Ice Dance - fluidity, extension and matching line.

The powerful and athletic style of Davis and White is a departure in what thrived in Ice Dance previously, so certainly there is a bit of discomfort from the establishment, which again is understandable.

But many of those same folks, begrundgly in some cases, have acknowledged Davis and White's technical ability and consider D/W and V/M basically above everyone else, even their own teams.

In the end, the preference of past champions don't really matter when it comes time for competition.

Is it really necessary to pick on and generalize and entire fan group? There's are only a handful of people on this thread (i.e. I can count it one hand) who have stirred the pot a little, but hardly should be representative of an entire group of fans. There are plenty of D/W fans that respect V/M and acknowledge their abilities.

In fact, you seem to ignore the several posters who have stated their respects for V/M on this thread alone:

Mrs. P, can you please read my post carefully? It was in DIRECT response from blackswanphoto whose post you can read many posts back. Please read carefully.

As for their preferences for V and M, it's not just what you mentioned, but I won't go into that here. Anything that mentions V and M without worshipping D and W is trolling and or snooty.

bramweld · Nov 11, 2013

^^ Seriously? :rolleye:

:disapp::disapp:

tulosai · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
Mrs. P, can you please read my post carefully? It was in DIRECT response from blackswanphoto whose post you can read many posts back. Please read carefully.

As for their preferences for V and M, it's not just what you mentioned, but I won't go into that here. Anything that mentions V and M without worshipping D and W is trolling and or snooty.

In fact you seem to think the opposite- anything favorable said about D/W is out there and crazy, and insulting to V/M simply by virtue of not excessively fawning over them.

Also I'd be careful in direct responses not to make them super general and insulting to a whole group of fans.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

tulosai said:
In fact you seem to think the opposite- anything favorable said about D/W is out there and crazy, and insulting to V/M simply by virtue of not excessively fawning over them.

.

Really?

My posts are mostly correcting misconstrued statements that have V and M in them, and coincidentally most of these posts are from D and W fans.

So not the same thing at all. Fawn over D and W all you like, its a public forum, go ahead.

Besides, if I am doing whatever you're accusing me of doing, I'd have like a million reply posts to blackswanphoto, and sweetskates and countless others. I've never responded to sweetskates ever in this forum, who constantly posts how D and W are so far above V and M...

tulosai · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
Really?
My posts are mostly correcting misconstrued statements that have V and M in them, and coincidentally most of these posts are from D and W fans.

So not the same thing at all. Fawn over D and W all you like, its a public forum, go ahead.

I'll start by saying, I know I was rude to you in a different thread (re: trolling), but I apologized publicly and explained my views on D/W &V/M more fully there- dunno if you saw it, the thread was quite exploding at the time with Yuna/Mao wars. So in that I admit I was rude to you, I know this might sound rich to you coming from me. However, some of your posts do come across as rude. You seem to class everyone who liked D/W together and to imply that they are all ubers out there just to be rude and bring V/M down. I unfortunately don't have time to pull examples right now and am not sure that would be constructive anyway but my advice to you, especially as a new poster (and again, I know this is maybe rich coming from me but I guess take the advice and ignore the person) is, when responding to these 'misconstrued statements' to be more specific toward the person you are responding to and try to avoid making generalizations about everyone who likes D/W or being rude about D/W yourself (please note, you can dislike D/W but as I'm sure you see in these posts you don't like about V/M there is a respectful way to dislike a team and there is a disrespectful way). Many people who like D/W also like (or even prefer!) V/M. There are some people in BOTH CAMPS who are terribly rude, bratty, and honestly crazy. It does no good to take those people and assume they represent everyone else.

Anyway, I apologize if that was preachy in any way- not my intention. I think though we all (myself included) sometimes come off differently than we wish to, and that, if you're the kind of person who wants it (which I think you are, and I know I am) constructive criticism can be useful, whether you choose to take it or leave it.

blackswanphoto · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
Really?
My posts are mostly correcting misconstrued statements that have V and M in them, and coincidentally most of these posts are from D and W fans.

So not the same thing at all. Fawn over D and W all you like, its a public forum, go ahead.

Besides, if I am doing whatever you're accusing me of doing, I'd have like a million reply posts to blackswanphoto, and sweetskates and countless others. I've never responded to sweetskates ever in this forum, who constantly posts how D and W are so far above V and M...

I see no lies.. :think:

aftertherain · Nov 11, 2013

Matt K said:
...and comes the self righteous response from the typical D/W uber. You just proved my point.

Hah! I've never been called self-righteous before.

I guess I'm a D/W uber now. Eh. Okay. Whatever. I can live with that.

On the other hand, I don't see why we have to talk about V/M WHEN THEY WEREN'T EVEN HERE--and that goes for everyone.

ETA: And for the record, I have all kinds of ubers on my ignore list--including those of D/W and V/M, which is probably why I tend to be selective in my responses.

ice coverage · Nov 11, 2013

Gotta jump in here and add two more of my cents. As I have said elsewhere, I like and respect Davis/White (on and off the ice), but prefer Virtue/Moir.
I am aware from this and other threads that some D/W fans who belong to GS also have positive feelings about V/M.

:yay: For the purposes of this post, I will refer to this group as the "non-bashing D/W fans."
Unfortunately, among D/W fans also are some bad apples who take pleasure in bashing V/M and in taunting fans of V/M. :bang:

Starting on page 9, one Davis/White fan in particular bashed Virtue/Moir. That post and a subsequent one from the same person provoked me to post two brief replies, even though I usually try to ignore such outright and shameless bashing. The same D/W fan has continued with a third and fourth taunting post, to which I have not and will not respond.

I was pleased that some "non-bashing D/W fans" posted comments favorable to both teams. I replied once to express my appreciation, and also noted that it can be really difficult to keep turning one's cheek when V/M bashing does pop up.

The point of this post:
None of the "non-bashing D/W fans" directly replied to or criticized the person bashing V/M. Originally I had no problem with that.
But now it has become disturbing to me, because some of them have jumped on MattK for his far less inflammatory (IMHO) replies to the original bashing. (One of his posts simply provided factual counterpoints to the taunting.)
So I do worry that V/M fans are being held to a higher standard on GS than D/W fans.
Non-bashing D/W fans left the one bad apple alone. At first, I chalked that up to a blanket policy of non-engagement, which would have been understandable.
But some of them felt free to lecture (or at least give "constructive"

criticism) to MattK, who is a V/M supporter. So their policy of non-engagement is selective.

All very frustrating. I am trying hard not to exacerbate any wars myself, so I hope once again to leave it there. I feel sure that V/M and D/W would hate to be the subject of any wars.

Mrs. P said:
... Yes, they did show Max in the Skate America NBC coverage. ...

Belated thanks to Mrs. P for reassuring me re Max.

TontoK · Nov 11, 2013

Golden, you're reading way too much into my non-reaction.

My policy has recently become that I just won't engage. Not with D/W bashers. Not with V/M bashers. Not with Yuna bashers. Not with Mao bashers.

I've been much more pleasant since I've taken this stance. I haven't figured out how to block anyone yet... I'm always hoping I can learn from someone.

That said, I'm more than happy to have a conversation/debate. But I'm done with the childish squabbling. I teach middle school, and I get enough of that.

tulosai · Nov 11, 2013

golden411 said:
But some of them felt free to lecture (or at least give "constructive" criticism) to MattK, who is a V/M supporter. So their policy of non-engagement is selective.

All very frustrating. I am trying hard not to exacerbate any wars myself, so I hope once again to leave it there. I feel sure that V/M and D/W would hate to be the subject of any wars.

Since this means me, I didn't post in this thread at all until today, so if I seem selective that is why. In addition though I responded to Matt K because he was bashing PEOPLE, not because he prefers V/M. I didn't read page 9 so I don't know what was said about V/M but if someone was saying their fans were ubers who were ruining the boards, I can assure you, I'd have responded the same way. I try to stay out of the ward concerning the teams themselves since I like both teams but no one can ever believe that and people (mostly V/M fans) have sometimes been very nasty to me and told me I don't like V/M and/or don't really prefer V/M to D/W even though I do and UM. I think i would know. This has soured me on talking about either team and led me to largely avoid the dance threads (hence not reading page 9). Nonetheless, I do not think all V/M fans (or most) are nasty or ubers, and I don't think that about D/W fans either.

Anyway, I will leave it there. This continues my long line of being misunderstood when responding to dance threads I suppose but now someone will probably say I am whining or making it all about me etc etc.

Tonichelle · Nov 11, 2013

TontoK said:
Golden, you're reading way too much into my non-reaction.

My policy has recently become that I just won't engage. Not with D/W bashers. Not with V/M bashers. Not with Yuna bashers. Not with Mao bashers.

I've been much more pleasant since I've taken this stance. I haven't figured out how to block anyone yet... I'm always hoping I can learn from someone.

That said, I'm more than happy to have a conversation/debate. But I'm done with the childish squabbling. I teach middle school, and I get enough of that.

IMO this is the better way to go. The people looking for a fight can't get their way if no one engages them, and they either behave and start interacting in a mature manner or they go away.

dorispulaski · Nov 11, 2013

TontoK said:
...

I've been much more pleasant since I've taken this stance. I haven't figured out how to block anyone yet... I'm always hoping I can learn from someone.
.

When you have a question, if you post in Feedback, the mods will try to answer it. In this case, the question was already asked & answered. Here's how to Ignore another poster:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?35354-How-to-Ignore-Other-Posters

macy · Nov 11, 2013

did anyone see the photo of the dance podium on the IN homepage? it looks like charlie is crying!

TontoK · Nov 11, 2013

I misspoke, Doris. I haven't figured out how to block someone, but mainly because I've chosen not to look into it.

I've crossed swords with a poster or two, but I've also learned so much from these same contributors on other topics and threads. I would have missed that education, or not considered their particular point of view, had I ignored them earlier.

Like I've said, for now I've decided to engage where I can enjoy the give-and-take... and to just disregard anything with jabs. I came to the board in search of people who share my love and passion for the sport, and I've found it.

I'm sure you get this all the time, but I really appreciate what you bring to GS, both in terms of your considerable knowledge of our sport and your calm and polished demeanor.

Matt K · Nov 11, 2013

tulosai said:
Since this means me, I didn't post in this thread at all until today, so if I seem selective that is why. In addition though I responded to Matt K because he was bashing PEOPLE, not because he prefers V/M. I didn't read page 9 so I don't know what was said about V/M but if someone was saying their fans were ubers who were ruining the boards, I can assure you, I'd have responded the same way. I try to stay out of the ward concerning the teams themselves since I like both teams but no one can ever believe that and people (mostly V/M fans) have sometimes been very nasty to me and told me I don't like V/M and/or don't really prefer V/M to D/W even though I do and UM. I think i would know. This has soured me on talking about either team and led me to largely avoid the dance threads (hence not reading page 9). Nonetheless, I do not think all V/M fans (or most) are nasty or ubers, and I don't think that about D/W fans either.

Anyway, I will leave it there. This continues my long line of being misunderstood when responding to dance threads I suppose but now someone will probably say I am whining or making it all about me etc etc.

You missed the point of golden411's post or just didn't read it carefully AT ALL. Wherever I "bashed people" was in direct response to the BASHER who made the initial post. Yet, you SELECTIVELY choose NOT to call out these posters (the D/W ubers) who initiated that kind of bashing. So you conveniently, SELECTIVELY, might I add, choose not to read page 9, yet you read pages 10+ and find my comment (which again, a direct response to the initial posters) and feel the need to lecture me on it, even if my post far less extreme than the initial posters (the D/W ubers). As for the V/M fans being nasty to you? Really??! :rolleye:

Between, like, the 3 V/M fans on this board, lol, and the 90 million followers of D/W on this forum, no one has made you retract your comments about your favoritism toward your favorite team or has criticized you for liking D/W. No one. What is wrong with asking what you like in a team? Or discussing why they are better/worse than another? Now, as for me calling you uninformed about ice dancing in the other thread where we bickered about the merits of D/W's status in the sport, that was mainly in response to you calling me a troll first

I feel you want me to shut me down every time in your posts when I mention V/M. Funny thing, is, if you read this thread, V/M were initially talked about first by the D/W uber, to whom I responded with some truth to his false statement which I merely CORRECTED. And its quite rich of you to be talking about being nasty to other posters.

Mrs. P · Nov 12, 2013

TontoK said:
I misspoke, Doris. I haven't figured out how to block someone, but mainly because I've chosen not to look into it.

I've crossed swords with a poster or two, but I've also learned so much from these same contributors on other topics and threads. I would have missed that education, or not considered their particular point of view, had I ignored them earlier.

Like I've said, for now I've decided to engage where I can enjoy the give-and-take... and to just disregard anything with jabs. I came to the board in search of people who share my love and passion for the sport, and I've found it.

I'm sure you get this all the time, but I really appreciate what you bring to GS, both in terms of your considerable knowledge of our sport and your calm and polished demeanor.

:agree:

Matt K · Nov 12, 2013

About the NHK Dance event, I'm only giving the top 5:

G/P- 2 very strong dances. Their SD had a lot of classic ballroom moves skated continuously in quite a bit of different holds. The ending could be stronger but in general I liked it. Their FD was the highlight, so many unusual moves and shapes - those lifts and that SPIN :clap:

. Could use a lot more speed and power but the choreography was so tightly woven together, very intricate. Loved it.

C/L- probably the best performers at selling their programs. Their FD really suits their style but nothing special, quite generic and open.

I/K- best skating skills, amazing speed, smoothness, power. Quality in all their movements. I loved their SD but their FD unfortunately, is another dance with open (or no) holds and basic stroking in between elements (pretty much like their last 2 FDs with Morozov). Very elegant and detailed expression with interesting lifts but the generic choreography really did them no favours. They are much better than that.

Shibutanis- MJ program a departure from their old FDs, but this could've been and called anything but a MJ program, aside from the crotch grab from the boy. The middle section looks pasted in. They don't have the strong skating skills of I/K but their technical elements are fairly secure and they do bring it when it counts. Technically, quite good here.

D/W - I'm not feeling the Foxtrot from their SD, it's too lilting for me to be one. Their FD was skated the best they could. A lot of detail in the middle section but I'd like to see them SKATING in closed dance positions even more (I liked the some of the holds in the beginning to their circular step). Their circular step sequence at times was skated so far apart though. Their transition into their diagonal step was so open and noticeable that I think this is to give them a break for them to regroup and skate the last step sequence. Which obviously worked because they got high scores on the step sequence.

V/M's FD is more intricate, yet less busy. D/W's the other way around.

KKonas · Nov 12, 2013

Matt K said:
About the NHK Dance event, I'm only giving the top 5:

D/W - I'm not feeling the Quickstep from their SD, it's too lilting for me to be one. /QUOTE]

FYI - Their SD starts with a Foxtrot, then goes to the required Finnstep (Quickstep), and ends with a Foxtrot. No team's required Finnstep can be described as "lilting."

Free Dance: 2013 NHK Trophy

rosacotton

Matt K

Matt K

bramweld

tulosai

Matt K

tulosai

blackswanphoto

aftertherain

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

TontoK

Hot Tonto

tulosai

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

macy

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Matt K

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Matt K

KKonas

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