Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 59

Thread: Mao changing her FP jump layout to include two 3-axel!?

  1. #31
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,702
    She doesn't need 3loop steps 2a. No need for 2a when u had 2 3as.

  2. #32
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,006
    3Loop+2Loop combo is worth slightly more than 3Loop+2Axel sequence anyway.

    This would be the most viable 8-Triple program for her:

    3Axel
    3Flip+3Toe
    3Lutz
    ----
    3Loop+2Loop+2Loop
    3Sal
    3Flip+2Loop
    3Loop

    I wish she would try to make history by being the first woman to do 4 Triples in the SP and 8 Triples in the LP.

  3. #33
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Asada has made a big mistake not continuing to train the 3Flip+3Toe all these years. A double-footed 3Axel isn't going to be enough to beat Yu-Na if she is on form. The rule changes since Vancouver specially benefit Asada and she hasn't taken advantage of it, just doing Triple-Double combo in the SP.

    Trying to go for two 3Axels in the LP is not a good decision, IMO. Her body has ground itself down; she can barely manage to rotate the jump anymore and it is hardly ever landed cleanly. It was great that she accomplished two of them in the past, but what is the point now? She doesn't have enough control over the jump and if she fails to put one of them in combination, then she gets hit with sequence deduction. If she actually started training the 3Flip+3Toe right now, she'd likely have a higher chance of landing it at the Olympics than she does of landing two clean 3Axels (with one in combo).
    i think she will win ogm no matter what..just look at her scores in the gps so far.. even w/ her flawed jumps.. i don't see yuna skating clean.. the only way yuna will win is to skate clean..

  4. #34
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    272
    Yuna skating clean > Asada skating clean, Yuna skating non-clean > Asada skating non-clean.. o.O

    What scores are you talking about, the ones 25 points below Yuna's best?

    So let's say Yuna even falls something and misses an entire 3-3 combination in her FS... That drops her from 150 to 142 or so, right? Mao's still never gotten there.

  5. #35
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,006
    Why should Yu-Na not be expected to skate clean? She skated two clean SP's and two clean LP's last season and she has the experience of doing it at the Olympics. Nobody is more consistent than her.

    I disagree that Yu-Na will only win if she skates clean. She has room for one jump mistake in her LP, unless Asada skates perfectly (something she has never done before).

  6. #36
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,548
    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    i think she will win ogm no matter what..just look at her scores in the gps so far.. even w/ her flawed jumps.. i don't see yuna skating clean.. the only way yuna will win is to skate clean..
    Assuming her injury has sufficiently healed, Yuna has a greater chance of skating clean than Mao does. Yuna can score 220+ with a clean SP and LP. Mao this season is scoring in the range of 200 to 210, which I'd say is her top range unless she can somehow pull off her ambitious jump layout.

    This season is oddly playing out like last season so far. Kostner starts off rather weak. Kim is missing and won't be seen until December. Asada is winning the Grand Prix.

  7. #37
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC; Tokyo
    Posts
    495
    I think getting so overly focused on the 3A has probably been the biggest problem in Mao's entire career. If anything, she needs a 3-3 combination now more than she did in Vancouver. Even if she manages to land a clean solo 3A and a 3A+2T combination, the chances if her getting a +GOE on both are really slim. The big base value of the 3A with the -GOE wasn't as much of an issue when fewer skaters had a 3-3 combination and Yu-Na wasn't racking up such huge scores with a clean (or mostly clean) program. There was a point in time where Mao could realistically still finish 1st with a mess up on a 3A, even if other skaters all had clean programs. That just isn't the case anymore.

    I always hoped that once Mao had all her 3A's ratified in competition, she would drop the focus on them... especially after so many years of playing the same game with a 3A in the SP and potentially two in the LP and never really having it pay off. I also have a hard time believing that ANY coach would continue to push this 3A obsession so much and wouldn't have tried to sway her over to getting a 3-3 competition worthy again (I've always had the suspicion that a lot of her coaching changes could have been made over that argument). There are just so many drawbacks to the 3A and 3A+2T combination in the LP for Mao (the prep time for both jumps, the disruption to the program if she falls, the potential of losing the combination jump altogether or having it downgraded to a 2A, the consistent -GOE's... to name a few), and I think a lot of the skating community is getting a bit tired of the same drama over the same jumps with Mao.

    /sigh.

  8. #38
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    México
    Posts
    748
    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Whatever changes are made, I really hope they do not revert back to Asada's Vancouver LP layout, which I found startlingly lacking. I am not a fan of skaters who are capable of attempting each jump omitting two types of triples, such as the Lutz, or flutz in Mao's case, and the Salchow in place of two 3Axels.

    H.
    so, I suppose you are not fan of a skater that omite the 3a and 3loop, because you cant to pretend that 3a is not a triple

  9. #39
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by bethissoawesome View Post
    I think getting so overly focused on the 3A has probably been the biggest problem in Mao's entire career. If anything, she needs a 3-3 combination now more than she did in Vancouver. Even if she manages to land a clean solo 3A and a 3A+2T combination, the chances if her getting a +GOE on both are really slim. The big base value of the 3A with the -GOE wasn't as much of an issue when fewer skaters had a 3-3 combination and Yu-Na wasn't racking up such huge scores with a clean (or mostly clean) program. There was a point in time where Mao could realistically still finish 1st with a mess up on a 3A, even if other skaters all had clean programs. That just isn't the case anymore.

    I always hoped that once Mao had all her 3A's ratified in competition, she would drop the focus on them... especially after so many years of playing the same game with a 3A in the SP and potentially two in the LP and never really having it pay off. I also have a hard time believing that ANY coach would continue to push this 3A obsession so much and wouldn't have tried to sway her over to getting a 3-3 competition worthy again (I've always had the suspicion that a lot of her coaching changes could have been made over that argument). There are just so many drawbacks to the 3A and 3A+2T combination in the LP for Mao (the prep time for both jumps, the disruption to the program if she falls, the potential of losing the combination jump altogether or having it downgraded to a 2A, the consistent -GOE's... to name a few), and I think a lot of the skating community is getting a bit tired of the same drama over the same jumps with Mao.

    /sigh.
    But you see the drama it started by an article where Mao said she is thinking about it. Nothing is set in stone, she is allowed to think about it. what drama by the way? An article or interview does not drama make

  10. #40
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC; Tokyo
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    But you see the drama it started by an article where Mao said she is thinking about it. Nothing is set in stone, she is allowed to think about it. what drama by the way? An article or interview does not drama make
    It's the fact that it's been the (more or less) same article over and over for about five years now.

  11. #41
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by bethissoawesome View Post
    It's the fact that it's been the (more or less) same article over and over for about five years now.
    Because unfortunately the press concentrate on that jump. However, Mao is the least dramatic skater I know.

  12. #42
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    203
    Can anyone explain why Mao insists on doing a 3F-3Lo (really 2Lo this season) instead of 3F-3T? Does the Zayak rule prohibit her from doing this layout:

    3A, 3F-3T, 3Lz, 2A-3T, 3S, 3Lo, 3F-2Lo-2Lo? That seems like her best shot of getting the maximum number of points from the jump elements. I don't see her getting 3F-3Lo ratified especially when she's getting calls on her 2Los this season. IMO, doing 2 triple axels in the free program is a big mistake. Even if she makes them (and that's a big if considering she's been double-footing them this fall), she'll have mistakes on her jumps elsewhere that will cost her points in base value and GOE.

  13. #43
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by amc987 View Post
    Can anyone explain why Mao insists on doing a 3F-3Lo (really 2Lo this season) instead of 3F-3T? Does the Zayak rule prohibit her from doing this layout:

    3A, 3F-3T, 3Lz, 2A-3T, 3S, 3Lo, 3F-2Lo-2Lo? That seems like her best shot of getting the maximum number of points from the jump elements. I don't see her getting 3F-3Lo ratified especially when she's getting calls on her 2Los this season. IMO, doing 2 triple axels in the free program is a big mistake. Even if she makes them (and that's a big if considering she's been double-footing them this fall), she'll have mistakes on her jumps elsewhere that will cost her points in base value and GOE.
    Her team probably doesn't want to repeat the toe loop twice. It's better for her to repeat the flip and loop.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Her team probably doesn't want to repeat the toe loop twice. It's better for her to repeat the flip and loop.
    But does that make any sense? If she can't get the 3F-3Lo credited and she (presumably) can't do 2A-3Lo, then wouldn't doing 2 3Ts be better than doing 2 3Los?

    If she insists on keeping 2 3 Los, I could see is getting rid of the 3F-2Lo-2Lo combo and doing something like 3F-1/2 Loop-3Lo. It seems like she's almost guaranteeing herself a downgrade if she keeps the 3Lo as back part of a combo and she can't do 2 solo 3Los so...

  15. #45
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by amc987 View Post
    But does that make any sense? If she can't get the 3F-3Lo credited and she (presumably) can't do 2A-3Lo, then wouldn't doing 2 3Ts be better than doing 2 3Los?

    If she insists on keeping 2 3 Los, I could see is getting rid of the 3F-2Lo-2Lo combo and doing something like 3F-1/2 Loop-3Lo. It seems like she's almost guaranteeing herself a downgrade if she keeps the 3Lo as back part of a combo and she can't do 2 solo 3Los so...
    Well, yeah. Personally, I think getting the 3-loop ratified as a second jump is a nearly impossible mission. To me, it seems more difficult than Mao getting two triple-axels ratified.

    But, well, Mr. Sato is probably in a better position to judge what Mao should attempt. So... who knows? Like the 3-axel, I think she is landing apparently clean 3flip-3loop combinations in practice. Her team still has Grand Prix Final, Nationals, and even the Olympics team event (where I guess Mao will skate the SP) to see if the 3flip-3loop combo is a realistic inclusion.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •