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Thread: Are I/K done after falling again?

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    Are I/K done after falling again?

    Who should their new coach be?

    Who could new partners be for both?

    What is causing these horrible level disasters?

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I would guess one of 2 things (maybe both).

    1. The coach might not know how to tell whether they have hit their levels. (Solution: get another coach, or if they must stay with Morosov, hire time with a strict technical specialist.)

    2. They may not work hard enough to hit their levels consistently. (Easy solution: work harder-they are talented kids with good basic skills. It should not be beyond them.)

    I'd include the effects of possible injuries, etc, but low levels has been a persistent issue for I&K.

    They are still very young for dancers (19 & 22), same ages as the Shibsibs. Cappellini & Lanotte and Pechalat & Bourzat weren't top ten at those ages. By no means should they be all washed up.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-10-2013 at 12:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I would guess one of 2 things (maybe both).

    1. The coach might not know how to tell whether they have hit their levels. (Solution: get another coach, or if they must stay with Morosov, hire time with a strict technical specialist.)

    2. They may not work hard enough to hit their levels consistently. (Easy solution: work harder-they are talented kids with good basic skills. It should not be beyond them.)

    I'd include the effects of possible injuries, etc, but low levels has been a persistent issue for I&K.

    They are still very young for dancers (19 & 22), same ages as the Shibsibs. Cappellini & Lanotte and Pechalat & Bourzat weren't top ten at those ages. By no means should they be all washed up.
    ^This, especially Doris's last point.

    Oy, how fickle is fandom!

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    NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

    I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

    I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.
    That is Kustarova thinking. When she coached B/S she was saying they only do level 4's but are not DW or VM so their level 4's are not called level 4's because DW are the leaders no matter what!

    The level 2's that rained down upon I/K at this comp indicate they and the coaches don't know how to hold positions or what steps to do either for ignorance or laziness in training!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

    I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.
    He gets quite sloppy when he tries to speed up. Controlling speed is extremely difficult, which is one reason why D/W get such high marks.

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    TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.

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    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    They definitely shouldn't get new partners. New coach, maybe.. but they aren't washed up since they are still young and can still improve.. if B/S retire after Sochi (which is a slight possibility, I think), they'll become Russian #1..

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

    I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.
    This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

    I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

    I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

    The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

    I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

    I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

    The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.
    i think the consensus is they a technical SPECIALIST not someone on the judging/technical analyzing committee. They appear to have some skill beside the pcs but don't know what or how to get the levels and goes. Shipland is better technically but artistically Marina. i don't really think D and W will stay around mind you unless there is a money issue ie more in amateur than retiring. Besides while there are a lot of huge D and W advocates the rest of the world is a bit fickle and if you stay too long you fizzle out or are shown the door. Even Michelle Kwan fizzled as did Maria B, Petrova and tikinov, maybe sadly Kavaguti and smirnov, Pang and Tong are headed in that direction, sarah hughes, kimmie meissner, sure injuries play a factor. Anyways back to i and K this is a team with talent now someone do something. And is soeone starting a rumour or is it truth there is trouble in their relationship? Are they with morosov because she was dating him? Are they lazy? Ah their medicority is still top ten in the world lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    ^This, especially Doris's last point.

    Oy, how fickle is fandom!
    The last point begs the question of why I/K have fallen behind S/S AGAIN! Even in world top 10 standings and talent level there was a almost 2 whole seasons where I/K was indisputably better than I/K and now I/K have collapsed and lost to S/S in worlds and now NHK when 2011-2012 was just terrific as well and fall 2012. This is severe regression of I/K based on level 2's for 4 elements in the SD- worst in the competition and then the FD level 2 and low GOE for level 3. What causing this terrible collapse and falling behind S/S again? This is the Olympic season shouldn't I/K be trying to be better and not fall behind any more teams? Certainly not ones they surpassed? Now C/L have progressed and I/K are just fading to oblivion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The last point begs the question of why I/K have fallen behind S/S AGAIN! Even in world top 10 standings and talent level there was a almost 2 whole seasons where I/K was indisputably better than I/K and now I/K have collapsed and lost to S/S in worlds and now NHK when 2011-2012 was just terrific as well and fall 2012. This is severe regression of I/K based on level 2's for 4 elements in the SD- worst in the competition and then the FD level 2 and low GOE for level 3. What causing this terrible collapse and falling behind S/S again? This is the Olympic season shouldn't I/K be trying to be better and not fall behind any more teams? Certainly not ones they surpassed? Now C/L have progressed and I/K are just fading to oblivion.
    This is first competition for I/K. Shibutanis season began with Skate America. When they can get their levels they will surpass S/S. Much much higher PCS, higher GOE too. That was easier for S/S. Because they are doing same elements forever. This is Marina's idea I think. Using same position for two different lifts in same program. Virtue/Moir changed of course but you can look at Shibutani's dance. This is easier for getting levels. This is not trying better for Olympic season. I respect I/K. Because they are taking risks and doing new elements.

    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=4m28s (4.28)
    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=2m19s (2.19)

    Only question when I/K will get their levels up. This is first time I'm optimistic about their programs. Best ever after the 2010.

  13. #13
    Ice Dance Obsessee lmarie086's Avatar
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    These are I/K's best programs in a while. That itself has been a major issue. Beside the fact that 'Ghost' was a terror last season, they haven't had good dance choreography. I know Morosov is a former ice-dancer, but he really does not seem to be able to choreograph a good, complete ice dance program that can maximize on points. Which is a same given how good I/K are, and have the potential to become. I'd love to see them leave his camp, but not sure where they should go really.

    Also, as dorispulaski said, they need to train harder. That, or change the way they're training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    This is first competition for I/K. Shibutanis season began with Skate America. When they can get their levels they will surpass S/S. Much much higher PCS, higher GOE too. That was easier for S/S. Because they are doing same elements forever. This is Marina's idea I think. Using same position for two different lifts in same program. Virtue/Moir changed of course but you can look at Shibutani's dance. This is easier for getting levels. This is not trying better for Olympic season. I respect I/K. Because they are taking risks and doing new elements.

    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=4m28s (4.28)
    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=2m19s (2.19)

    Only question when I/K will get their levels up. This is first time I'm optimistic about their programs. Best ever after the 2010.
    If it were common for many teams to get 4 level 2s in a SD and then get more level 2's in a fd it might be explained. It only happened to I/k for some reason. Dislike of training? Possible personal dislike of each other? Total incompetence in coaching that they need to leave immediately? This competiton was garbage and they embarrassed themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    ^This, especially Doris's last point.

    Oy, how fickle is fandom!
    I think I/K said the same thing.

    Elena: We don't think about it. There are so many people talking. If we do something good, they start talking like, "oh, they are the best couple in Russia, they can win Olympic gold". Then if we make a mistake, do something wrong, they say we look like ****, we are no good. People are like high or low, but we only listen to our coach and our technical specialists; the people that help us.
    http://www.absoluteskating.com/index...nykhkatsalapov

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