Are I/K done after falling again? | Golden Skate

Are I/K done after falling again?

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Who should their new coach be?

Who could new partners be for both?

What is causing these horrible level disasters?
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I would guess one of 2 things (maybe both).

1. The coach might not know how to tell whether they have hit their levels. (Solution: get another coach, or if they must stay with Morosov, hire time with a strict technical specialist.)

2. They may not work hard enough to hit their levels consistently. (Easy solution: work harder-they are talented kids with good basic skills. It should not be beyond them.)

I'd include the effects of possible injuries, etc, but low levels has been a persistent issue for I&K.

They are still very young for dancers (19 & 22), same ages as the Shibsibs. Cappellini & Lanotte and Pechalat & Bourzat weren't top ten at those ages. By no means should they be all washed up.
 
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bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Who should there new coach be?

Who could new partners be for both?

What is causing these horrible level disasters?

Look on the scores these are early days yet! All three, C/L, S/S and I/K were bunched together. No need to be so fatalistic. These too are artists who always struggle with tes, they should be allowed to age like fine wine, the tes will come in time.

Besides,start over form scratch,with whom? Zhulin doesn't want them back so where? Krylova/Carmelengo the only real option. Igor is a great techie, but his artistic vision not so much. Leave them alone, they need to gel. They have a real connection, didn't you just see their FD, starting over might be heartbreaking to both!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I can't get over their extreme level problems! It was very nice but then there was the score of the shibutanis and then there was the protocol with level 2's and the entire thing was destroyed beyond measure. They need a coach for training ANd levels and need to start over with a new Coach and if they can't train together for long hours maybe they need to find new partners. I don't know what is causing the low level disaster catastrophies which make them go back to 2010 and fall behind the shibutanis again. It's like 2010 all over and there awful diaster debut season which caused them to change coaches because they fell behind the shibutanis in the gp is now on repeat.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
No. They just need a new coach who understand levels. I can't understand why Russian Federation didn't send one of the team at Igor. Look at Capellini/Lanotte. You can see change of skating after one season. They will lost a medal because of this. Maybe even team medal because Canada,USA,Italia,France already surpassed them.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
they just need a new coach, Morosov doesnt seem to understand how to hit levels
solution get a technical coach, go to Shipilband ?

Morosov's students have been fleeing him
they should have followed last summer
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yes they need a new coach and new technical people. Look at 2010-2011. They lost to the shibutanis a couple of times and they considered it so awful and a huge diaster because of 2010 jr worlds that they left zhulin. Now they have lost to the shibutanis a couple of times under morosov!

The only solution is to change coaches before the next gp event or Russian nationals or euros or something. Gracie gold changed cosches a few weeks ago and zawadzki did. I don't know but this level of extreme disaster got them away from zhulin quick and it's happening again and they can't waste time. They actually need to switch cosches right now.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
I would guess one of 2 things (maybe both).

1. The coach might not know how to tell whether they have hit their levels. (Solution: get another coach, or if they must stay with Morosov, hire time with a strict technical specialist.)

2. They may not work hard enough to hit their levels consistently. (Easy solution: work harder-they are talented kids with good basic skills. It should not be beyond them.)

I'd include the effects of possible injuries, etc, but low levels has been a persistent issue for I&K.

They are still very young for dancers (19 & 22), same ages as the Shibsibs. Cappellini & Lanotte and Pechalat & Bourzat weren't top ten at those ages. By no means should they be all washed up.

^This, especially Doris's last point.

Oy, how fickle is fandom!
 

noidont

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
^This, especially Doris's last point.

Oy, how fickle is fandom!

The last point begs the question of why I/K have fallen behind S/S AGAIN! Even in world top 10 standings and talent level there was a almost 2 whole seasons where I/K was indisputably better than I/K and now I/K have collapsed and lost to S/S in worlds and now NHK when 2011-2012 was just terrific as well and fall 2012. This is severe regression of I/K based on level 2's for 4 elements in the SD- worst in the competition and then the FD level 2 and low GOE for level 3. What causing this terrible collapse and falling behind S/S again? This is the Olympic season shouldn't I/K be trying to be better and not fall behind any more teams? Certainly not ones they surpassed? Now C/L have progressed and I/K are just fading to oblivion.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.

That is Kustarova thinking. When she coached B/S she was saying they only do level 4's but are not DW or VM so their level 4's are not called level 4's because DW are the leaders no matter what!

The level 2's that rained down upon I/K at this comp indicate they and the coaches don't know how to hold positions or what steps to do either for ignorance or laziness in training!
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
The last point begs the question of why I/K have fallen behind S/S AGAIN! Even in world top 10 standings and talent level there was a almost 2 whole seasons where I/K was indisputably better than I/K and now I/K have collapsed and lost to S/S in worlds and now NHK when 2011-2012 was just terrific as well and fall 2012. This is severe regression of I/K based on level 2's for 4 elements in the SD- worst in the competition and then the FD level 2 and low GOE for level 3. What causing this terrible collapse and falling behind S/S again? This is the Olympic season shouldn't I/K be trying to be better and not fall behind any more teams? Certainly not ones they surpassed? Now C/L have progressed and I/K are just fading to oblivion.

This is first competition for I/K. Shibutanis season began with Skate America. When they can get their levels they will surpass S/S. Much much higher PCS, higher GOE too. That was easier for S/S. Because they are doing same elements forever. This is Marina's idea I think. Using same position for two different lifts in same program. Virtue/Moir changed of course but you can look at Shibutani's dance. This is easier for getting levels. This is not trying better for Olympic season. :disapp: I respect I/K. Because they are taking risks and doing new elements.

http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=4m28s (4.28)
http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=2m19s (2.19)

Only question when I/K will get their levels up. :rolleye: This is first time I'm optimistic about their programs. Best ever after the 2010. :)
 

lmarie086

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
These are I/K's best programs in a while. That itself has been a major issue. Beside the fact that 'Ghost' was a terror last season, they haven't had good dance choreography. I know Morosov is a former ice-dancer, but he really does not seem to be able to choreograph a good, complete ice dance program that can maximize on points. Which is a same given how good I/K are, and have the potential to become. I'd love to see them leave his camp, but not sure where they should go really.

Also, as dorispulaski said, they need to train harder. That, or change the way they're training.
 

Srin Odessa

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
^This, especially Doris's last point.

Oy, how fickle is fandom!

I think I/K said the same thing.

Elena: We don't think about it. There are so many people talking. If we do something good, they start talking like, "oh, they are the best couple in Russia, they can win Olympic gold". Then if we make a mistake, do something wrong, they say we look like ****, we are no good. People are like high or low, but we only listen to our coach and our technical specialists; the people that help us.

http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2012ilinykhkatsalapov
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.

He gets quite sloppy when he tries to speed up. Controlling speed is extremely difficult, which is one reason why D/W get such high marks.
 

96skiluvr

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.
 

Matt K

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.

TSL is not very bright apparently. Look at the Shibs. They are going nowhere with Marina right now. Shpilband would be a far better option.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.

No Marina please.:no: You can see Shibutani's dance. No new idea, using old musics and elements again and again. Their style completely different than Marina.:no:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them. Zoueva or Shpilband aren't going to put up with laziness from I/K. Either they are going to work or they are going to remain mediocre middle-of the rank skaters. And that would be a shame, because they have the talent and the charisma to become one of the greats.
 
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