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Thread: Are I/K done after falling again?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    It is to his extreme advantage to say they are lazy, he coaches their only real rivals in Russia right now- B/S. Srin Odessa's post gave a more detailed description about the truth as far as we all know it. One thing is clear- neither Zuhlin nor I/K were fully happy with the coaching relationship. That being the case, it is probably better that they did split. Now I/K have to figure out how to get the levels, and whether they can get them with Mozorov. However, even if they can't, the solution for them isn't to go back to Zuhlin (if he'd have them, which actually, for reasons to speculative to post here in good faith, I bet he would). The solution is to find someone who can help them get the levels and (IF necessary, which it may or may not be, because even if they were lazy with Zuhlin, there's no reason to assume they are now) put in more time on the ice.
    Staviski works with zhulin so maybe you can ignore him but why would tarasova also say I/k hate training? She is a cheerleader for every skater but I/k! Lol. Is it that the whole Russian skating establishment against I/k because they support b/s? But why b/s over I/k when 2012 worlds and 2013 euros I/k were better or almost exactly even? Is it it because they know they can't trust I/k because they hate working hard and training? Level 2 means something and says something.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This is a funny thread title. Is everyone who places behind Maia and Alex at a grand prix event automatically done forever?
    I/k are a special case because they really did thoroughly surpass s/s and are now behind them again.

  3. #63
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    I think historical perspective can be useful in evaluating the angst surrounding I/K.

    For something like a half a century, Russian ice dance was the very definition of excellence in the sport. Except for very brief interludes... notably T/D and a few others... it was sure money to bet that a Soviet/Russian would be atop the podium, and would frequently take one (sometimes both) of the other podium spots as well.

    Now the top... some debate about that sometimes... Russian ice dancers have fallen behind what are probably the US #3. They're probably behind the Canadian #2, the Italians, perhaps the French...

    It's not out of the realm of possibility that the best Russian ice dance team will be ranked 8th or lower when they skate on Olympic ice at home.

    This is shocking. Beyond shocking.

    Then to hear that they just don't work that hard... that they're lazy... well, it seems like almost disrespectful to a glorious legacy of Russian sport.

    I think this is what has got Russian fans, as well as others who have had an appreciation of Russian dance, in a foul mood.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Then to hear that they just don't work that hard... that they're lazy... well, it seems like almost disrespectful to a glorious legacy of Russian sport.

    I think this is what has got Russian fans, as well as others who have had an appreciation of Russian dance, in a foul mood.
    They probably work a lot harder than the average person, but in the ice dancing elite, whatever it is they're doing or not doing aren't getting the results they and their fans want.

    There is no disrespect in this thread. It wouldn't matter if I&K were Canadian, Chinese, or incidentally Russian. The verdict would be the same. There are rumors of their lesser work ethic, true or not. It is obvious they're not in physical top shape in comparison to the ice dancing elite (not to the general population).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    They probably work a lot harder than the average person, but in the ice dancing elite, whatever it is they're doing or not doing aren't getting the results they and their fans want.

    There is no disrespect in this thread. It wouldn't matter if I&K were Canadian, Chinese, or incidentally Russian. The verdict would be the same. There are rumors of their lesser work ethic, true or not. It is obvious they're not in physical top shape in comparison to the ice dancing elite (not to the general population).

    I must not have written what I intended to convey. No one is being disrespectful to them... I believe some people (myself included) may feel that I/K are disrespectful of the heritage of Russian dance... if the widely held belief that they do not have a great work ethic happens to be true.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I must not have written what I intended to convey. No one is being disrespectful to them... I believe some people (myself included) may feel that I/K are disrespectful of the heritage of Russian dance... if the widely held belief that they do not have a great work ethic happens to be true.
    I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Yes... I do agree with your view though. It's more disappointing to see people expecting the highest honors without putting in the necessary effort.

  7. #67
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    I love her, she's so pretty (he's pretty too) , and she has like Krylova/Grishuk/Usova level craziness, which I love. I love the first lift in their Swan Lake program, she gives mad fashion-face.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I&K are not and never were the best Russian dance team. Bobrova & Soloviev are. That said B&S could even finish as low as 5th or 6th at the Olympics, but they certainly wont be finishing behind say the Shibutanis (now I&K might).
    Interesting... I prefer I/K myself... there's just something about them on the ice... but the lazy work ethic thing has put me off.

    I think I feel about the woes of Russian ice dance the same way I feel about American ladies. It's time for the mediocrity to end. History demands it.

  9. #69
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    ^ I/K's basic skating skills are so much better than B/S's, though, given Bobrova's issues with posture and lines. And I/K have far better expressions too.
    So on paper they should be Russia's #1. Why they are not by now... well, the not working hard enough theory is the only one that makes sense.

    At this point, I would have both Russian teams behind all of P/B, C/L and W/P. About the Shibs, well, hard to tell whether they are USA's #3. C/B are not impressive at all this year and I think Maia and Alex could actually have a shot at beating them this year. This would make I/K only fall behind US #2, if that makes anyone feel better :P

  10. #70
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    The great thing about Ice Dance nowadays is that there is so much room for friendly disagreement.

    My second favorite US team is H/D... I'm sure they're a technical step or two behind the podium, but I'm always caught up in their performance. If I said I thought the Shibs wouldn't be #3, it would be because they were bumped to #4, not jumped to #2.

    I will say, however, that the Shibs improvement is very apparent to me.

    I don't have much of an opinion of C/B, other than she definitely has the "it factor." I find her to be stunning.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    The great thing about Ice Dance nowadays is that there is so much room for friendly disagreement.

    My second favorite US team is H/D... I'm sure they're a technical step or two behind the podium, but I'm always caught up in their performance. If I said I thought the Shibs wouldn't be #3, it would be because they were bumped to #4, not jumped to #2.

    I will say, however, that the Shibs improvement is very apparent to me.

    I don't have much of an opinion of C/B, other than she definitely has the "it factor." I find her to be stunning.
    Certainly everyone has their favorites. And isn't it nice that Ice Dance is getting so much love we DISAGREE on which of the amazing teams on the U.S. Dance roaster we should love the most?

    The Shibutanis don't get much love on the boards, but I like them a lot for their personalities and I do like their sleek and clean dance style, though some find that boring. As I said earlier, I think it's great that both I/K and the Shibs have been able to jump nicely into the senior scene. Can't really say the same for the other junior couples have followed them.

  12. #72
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    Why could I/k never even beat b/s in one segment of a Russian nationals competition? Not even if b/s were being beaten by I/k outside of Russia and when both made the gpf? because the judges and federation never wanted to give them the title of Russian Dance champions because of the work ethic and training deficiencies! They could never be trusted with Russia number one! Imagine a Russia number one that gets 16th in Tes at a worlds like I/k did! Embarrassing.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Exactly. B/S have their faults and I don't think they are a great team but they are atleast getting the most out of their potential (which isn't that great). I/K have had all kinds of problems getting their levels up, skating cleanly, and according to everyone who matters and has worked with them their work ethic and getting past their diva-like holier than thou attitude. It is one thing for someone like Scott Moir who is already an Olympic Champion to have that attitude, but another for a team who frankly has done squat all since their World Junior title.
    It's such an amazing statistic! B/S have never lost to I/K in anything inside Russia! Russia is where I/K are known best and all the federation powers and judges have never allowed I/K to ever beat B/S! It just can not happen. They won't allow I/K to actually become the face of Russian ice dance. Especially when it's not clear how much I/K are really invested in being good.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's such an amazing statistic! B/S have never lost to I/K in anything inside Russia! Russia is where I/K are known best and all the federation powers and judges have never allowed I/K to ever beat B/S! It just can not happen. They won't allow I/K to actually become the face of Russian ice dance. Especially when it's not clear how much I/K are really invested in being good.
    This is where westerners don't understand leftover Communist mentalities. Seniority is at least 1 point a year in PCS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I agree they're not there yet with the MJ choreography yet, but I don't expect them to be at this point. Michael Jackson dance choreography IS very challenging to begin with and it's even more challenging when you're trying to hit levels and do it on ice. As I said in other posts, they need to make sure they're hitting the levels first before they can really sell the choreography. The fact that the Shibutanis managed to beat I/K despite a deficit in PCS/GOE relative to I/K, is an indication that you're money ahead to get the levels then to get +GOE/PCS. You can disagree with that part of COP, but Maia and Alex are smart for going that method, especially as it was the source of their downfall the last two seasons.

    As the Eurosport folks point out, the music is very staccato but yet they have to do long-glides in step sequences to get the levels. So they're going to have to figure out how to dance to the staccato parts of the music, yet maintain the edges to get the key points. But again, I think that will come with due time. They don't need to peak at NHK. They need to peak at Nationals to get on the Olympic team and then if they make it to the Olympics peak again to do well. NHK is just one step toward that process.

    Again, I/K may have more raw talent than the Shibs, but that certainly hasn't been reflected in their face-to-face matchup record.
    On the positive if I and K improve their levels there is an tendencey for pcs to rise as well so they could bounce back.

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