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Thread: Are I/K done after falling again?

  1. #16
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    TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96skiluvr View Post
    TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.
    TSL is not very bright apparently. Look at the Shibs. They are going nowhere with Marina right now. Shpilband would be a far better option.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96skiluvr View Post
    TSL actually discussed them back in September, and suggested that after D/W and V/M retire, Marina will lose two top teams and have much more time and space in Canton - going to Marina should be something that they seriously consider. Also, Elena trained in Canton with Marina for a couple of years back in 2005/6/7 or so, so that rink/coach is not completely new to her.
    No Marina please. You can see Shibutani's dance. No new idea, using old musics and elements again and again. Their style completely different than Marina.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srin Odessa View Post
    Well what caused all the level 2's again? They are not skating like they even have technical specialists. Or they only listen sometimes and don't train that much.

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    Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them. Zoueva or Shpilband aren't going to put up with laziness from I/K. Either they are going to work or they are going to remain mediocre middle-of the rank skaters. And that would be a shame, because they have the talent and the charisma to become one of the greats.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    This is first competition for I/K. Shibutanis season began with Skate America. When they can get their levels they will surpass S/S. Much much higher PCS, higher GOE too. That was easier for S/S. Because they are doing same elements forever. This is Marina's idea I think. Using same position for two different lifts in same program. Virtue/Moir changed of course but you can look at Shibutani's dance. This is easier for getting levels. This is not trying better for Olympic season. I respect I/K. Because they are taking risks and doing new elements.

    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=4m28s (4.28)
    http://youtu.be/w92f3QtBFro?t=2m19s (2.19)

    Only question when I/K will get their levels up. This is first time I'm optimistic about their programs. Best ever after the 2010.
    If it were common for many teams to get 4 level 2s in a SD and then get more level 2's in a fd it might be explained. It only happened to I/k for some reason. Dislike of training? Possible personal dislike of each other? Total incompetence in coaching that they need to leave immediately? This competiton was garbage and they embarrassed themselves.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    NHK's dance tech panel have two north americas and one japanese....just saying.

    I'm no good at looking at levels, can someone break down why they always get level 2s? For one I always thought their Cosp is one of the best in dance but they consistently got level 2 on that element. It is baffling.
    This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

    I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

    I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

    The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them. Zoueva or Shpilband aren't going to put up with laziness from I/K. Either they are going to work or they are going to remain mediocre middle-of the rank skaters. And that would be a shame, because they have the talent and the charisma to become one of the greats.
    Yep, as bad as it may sound, I don't think they're working hard enough. After placing 5th in the world, they got a bit too certain they would only move up from there. They are incredibly talented and I think it's doing harm to them, because they think talent is enough. And talent is never enough.

    I mean, I would say it was a coach problem, but they had the same kind of issues with a different coach too, so... my money is on not working hard enough.

    I hope they get it together, though. They're both incredible and I could see them dominate the world after VM and DW retire if only they worked harder for it. I agree they have amazing charisma, they're very unique.

  9. #24
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    No one is done forever. Never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Zhulin gave up on I/K because of their work ethic. They went to Morozov because he could give them only limited time, which was fine with them.
    Is this your opinion or did you read this somewhere (just curious)?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    This same tech panel hit D/W with a L3 twizzle and L3 Finnstep sequence in the SD.

    I assume it's because they didn't actually hit the L4 requirement, and not because of a judging conspiracy.

    I think it's fair to say the exact same thing about I/K Levels. They didn't get higher levels because they didn't perform them.

    The consensus on the thread is that they need help on achieving the levels... not that they need a different technical panel.
    i think the consensus is they a technical SPECIALIST not someone on the judging/technical analyzing committee. They appear to have some skill beside the pcs but don't know what or how to get the levels and goes. Shipland is better technically but artistically Marina. i don't really think D and W will stay around mind you unless there is a money issue ie more in amateur than retiring. Besides while there are a lot of huge D and W advocates the rest of the world is a bit fickle and if you stay too long you fizzle out or are shown the door. Even Michelle Kwan fizzled as did Maria B, Petrova and tikinov, maybe sadly Kavaguti and smirnov, Pang and Tong are headed in that direction, sarah hughes, kimmie meissner, sure injuries play a factor. Anyways back to i and K this is a team with talent now someone do something. And is soeone starting a rumour or is it truth there is trouble in their relationship? Are they with morosov because she was dating him? Are they lazy? Ah their medicority is still top ten in the world lol

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    Yep, as bad as it may sound, I don't think they're working hard enough. After placing 5th in the world, they got a bit too certain they would only move up from there. They are incredibly talented and I think it's doing harm to them, because they think talent is enough. And talent is never enough.

    I mean, I would say it was a coach problem, but they had the same kind of issues with a different coach too, so... my money is on not working hard enough.

    I hope they get it together, though. They're both incredible and I could see them dominate the world after VM and DW retire if only they worked harder for it. I agree they have amazing charisma, they're very unique.
    If they both don't like to train then they are failing together but what if one is really interested and the other is dragging them down? So whoever that would be it would be best if they found a new partner right? Zhulin was focused on P/B and said explicitly that he didn't want to work I/K too hard in the early season so they would peak for the worlds in 2011. Then they started to lose to the Shibutani's. Then after I/K left Zhulin said and still says how they hate training. But they wanted results so they left Zhulin and went to Morozov who had a zillion other skaters. And he would be busy a lot with others. So they initially had some good results GPF Euros silver but then had a massive breakdown that is still continuting. But did Morozov being busy with so many other skaters allow for I/K not to train. If there biggest goal is too avoid training as much as possible why are they even continuing in the sport? They looked totally undertrained and like they never did their whole SD or FD before at NHK! I think it would be best if Zhulin and Tarasova and all the powers in Russian skating including Staviski who criticize I/K work ethic really made it their goal to keep I/K out of Sochi. Tarasova got Kovtun to Euros maybe they all working together can keep I/K out of Sochi.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    i think the consensus is they a technical SPECIALIST not someone on the judging/technical analyzing committee. They appear to have some skill beside the pcs but don't know what or how to get the levels and goes. Shipland is better technically but artistically Marina. i don't really think D and W will stay around mind you unless there is a money issue ie more in amateur than retiring. Besides while there are a lot of huge D and W advocates the rest of the world is a bit fickle and if you stay too long you fizzle out or are shown the door. Even Michelle Kwan fizzled as did Maria B, Petrova and tikinov, maybe sadly Kavaguti and smirnov, Pang and Tong are headed in that direction, sarah hughes, kimmie meissner, sure injuries play a factor. Anyways back to i and K this is a team with talent now someone do something. And is soeone starting a rumour or is it truth there is trouble in their relationship? Are they with morosov because she was dating him? Are they lazy? Ah their medicority is still top ten in the world lol
    I think you may have misunderstood what I meant to say... which is that the problems were not with the tech panel at NHK, but rather with the skaters themselves, who did not hit the levels.

    My post was a reply to another contributor who hinted that with a different, less biased panel, their levels would have been judged other than what they were.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    No one is done forever. Never.
    There needs to be radical changes and dramatic overhaul. They can't give an embarrassing level 2 performance again! They might not be done but need new coaches. They can't stay with Morozov who apparently is fine with all their bad habits including not training. I think I/K know they could quit if they aren't interested anymore. Not training but going compete may be something they want to do but I think they want good results and to be successful.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Is this your opinion or did you read this somewhere (just curious)?
    http://ontd-skating.livejournal.com/1111824.html

    Back in 2011 after worlds, Zhulin made some public remarks about I/K's lack of dedication. At the time, they were still together. People didn't know whether it was true or Zhulin wanted to save face after their placement at World.

    After the split, Nikita fired back by saying Zhulin had neglected them and not given them adequate technical support. Zhulin replied to the scandal by saying that the Russian Federation had orchestrated the split.

    Some people on Russian forums said that lengthy training blocks were a major factor in their split since they had difficultly adapting to his training style at a senior level.

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