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Thread: Are I/K done after falling again?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    It is to his extreme advantage to say they are lazy, he coaches their only real rivals in Russia right now- B/S. Srin Odessa's post gave a more detailed description about the truth as far as we all know it. One thing is clear- neither Zuhlin nor I/K were fully happy with the coaching relationship. That being the case, it is probably better that they did split. Now I/K have to figure out how to get the levels, and whether they can get them with Mozorov. However, even if they can't, the solution for them isn't to go back to Zuhlin (if he'd have them, which actually, for reasons to speculative to post here in good faith, I bet he would). The solution is to find someone who can help them get the levels and (IF necessary, which it may or may not be, because even if they were lazy with Zuhlin, there's no reason to assume they are now) put in more time on the ice.
    Staviski works with zhulin so maybe you can ignore him but why would tarasova also say I/k hate training? She is a cheerleader for every skater but I/k! Lol. Is it that the whole Russian skating establishment against I/k because they support b/s? But why b/s over I/k when 2012 worlds and 2013 euros I/k were better or almost exactly even? Is it it because they know they can't trust I/k because they hate working hard and training? Level 2 means something and says something.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This is a funny thread title. Is everyone who places behind Maia and Alex at a grand prix event automatically done forever?
    I/k are a special case because they really did thoroughly surpass s/s and are now behind them again.

  3. #63
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    I think historical perspective can be useful in evaluating the angst surrounding I/K.

    For something like a half a century, Russian ice dance was the very definition of excellence in the sport. Except for very brief interludes... notably T/D and a few others... it was sure money to bet that a Soviet/Russian would be atop the podium, and would frequently take one (sometimes both) of the other podium spots as well.

    Now the top... some debate about that sometimes... Russian ice dancers have fallen behind what are probably the US #3. They're probably behind the Canadian #2, the Italians, perhaps the French...

    It's not out of the realm of possibility that the best Russian ice dance team will be ranked 8th or lower when they skate on Olympic ice at home.

    This is shocking. Beyond shocking.

    Then to hear that they just don't work that hard... that they're lazy... well, it seems like almost disrespectful to a glorious legacy of Russian sport.

    I think this is what has got Russian fans, as well as others who have had an appreciation of Russian dance, in a foul mood.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Then to hear that they just don't work that hard... that they're lazy... well, it seems like almost disrespectful to a glorious legacy of Russian sport.

    I think this is what has got Russian fans, as well as others who have had an appreciation of Russian dance, in a foul mood.
    They probably work a lot harder than the average person, but in the ice dancing elite, whatever it is they're doing or not doing aren't getting the results they and their fans want.

    There is no disrespect in this thread. It wouldn't matter if I&K were Canadian, Chinese, or incidentally Russian. The verdict would be the same. There are rumors of their lesser work ethic, true or not. It is obvious they're not in physical top shape in comparison to the ice dancing elite (not to the general population).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    They probably work a lot harder than the average person, but in the ice dancing elite, whatever it is they're doing or not doing aren't getting the results they and their fans want.

    There is no disrespect in this thread. It wouldn't matter if I&K were Canadian, Chinese, or incidentally Russian. The verdict would be the same. There are rumors of their lesser work ethic, true or not. It is obvious they're not in physical top shape in comparison to the ice dancing elite (not to the general population).

    I must not have written what I intended to convey. No one is being disrespectful to them... I believe some people (myself included) may feel that I/K are disrespectful of the heritage of Russian dance... if the widely held belief that they do not have a great work ethic happens to be true.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I must not have written what I intended to convey. No one is being disrespectful to them... I believe some people (myself included) may feel that I/K are disrespectful of the heritage of Russian dance... if the widely held belief that they do not have a great work ethic happens to be true.
    I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Yes... I do agree with your view though. It's more disappointing to see people expecting the highest honors without putting in the necessary effort.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I think historical perspective can be useful in evaluating the angst surrounding I/K.

    For something like a half a century, Russian ice dance was the very definition of excellence in the sport. Except for very brief interludes... notably T/D and a few others... it was sure money to bet that a Soviet/Russian would be atop the podium, and would frequently take one (sometimes both) of the other podium spots as well.

    Now the top... some debate about that sometimes... Russian ice dancers have fallen behind what are probably the US #3. They're probably behind the Canadian #2, the Italians, perhaps the French...

    It's not out of the realm of possibility that the best Russian ice dance team will be ranked 8th or lower when they skate on Olympic ice at home.

    This is shocking. Beyond shocking.

    Then to hear that they just don't work that hard... that they're lazy... well, it seems like almost disrespectful to a glorious legacy of Russian sport.

    I think this is what has got Russian fans, as well as others who have had an appreciation of Russian dance, in a foul mood.
    I&K are not and never were the best Russian dance team. Bobrova & Soloviev are. That said B&S could even finish as low as 5th or 6th at the Olympics, but they certainly wont be finishing behind say the Shibutanis (now I&K might).

  8. #68
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    I love her, she's so pretty (he's pretty too) , and she has like Krylova/Grishuk/Usova level craziness, which I love. I love the first lift in their Swan Lake program, she gives mad fashion-face.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I&K are not and never were the best Russian dance team. Bobrova & Soloviev are. That said B&S could even finish as low as 5th or 6th at the Olympics, but they certainly wont be finishing behind say the Shibutanis (now I&K might).
    Interesting... I prefer I/K myself... there's just something about them on the ice... but the lazy work ethic thing has put me off.

    I think I feel about the woes of Russian ice dance the same way I feel about American ladies. It's time for the mediocrity to end. History demands it.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Interesting... I prefer I/K myself... there's just something about them on the ice... but the lazy work ethic thing has put me off.

    I think I feel about the woes of Russian ice dance the same way I feel about American ladies. It's time for the mediocrity to end. History demands it.
    I prefer I/K to B/S too but competitively speaking I/K are not and never were the #1 Russians. They certainly aren't now either, and finishing behind the Shibutanis is only further proof of that. While I am not predicting a stellar season for the reigning World bronze medalists Bobrova & Soloviev either, I am certain they will be the top placing Russians at the Games. Although that might still only be about 5th place even for them, while I/K will probably be somewhere around 8th (and right around where the Shibutanis will be if they make it there as well).

  11. #71
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    ^ I/K's basic skating skills are so much better than B/S's, though, given Bobrova's issues with posture and lines. And I/K have far better expressions too.
    So on paper they should be Russia's #1. Why they are not by now... well, the not working hard enough theory is the only one that makes sense.

    At this point, I would have both Russian teams behind all of P/B, C/L and W/P. About the Shibs, well, hard to tell whether they are USA's #3. C/B are not impressive at all this year and I think Maia and Alex could actually have a shot at beating them this year. This would make I/K only fall behind US #2, if that makes anyone feel better :P

  12. #72
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    The great thing about Ice Dance nowadays is that there is so much room for friendly disagreement.

    My second favorite US team is H/D... I'm sure they're a technical step or two behind the podium, but I'm always caught up in their performance. If I said I thought the Shibs wouldn't be #3, it would be because they were bumped to #4, not jumped to #2.

    I will say, however, that the Shibs improvement is very apparent to me.

    I don't have much of an opinion of C/B, other than she definitely has the "it factor." I find her to be stunning.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    The great thing about Ice Dance nowadays is that there is so much room for friendly disagreement.

    My second favorite US team is H/D... I'm sure they're a technical step or two behind the podium, but I'm always caught up in their performance. If I said I thought the Shibs wouldn't be #3, it would be because they were bumped to #4, not jumped to #2.

    I will say, however, that the Shibs improvement is very apparent to me.

    I don't have much of an opinion of C/B, other than she definitely has the "it factor." I find her to be stunning.
    Certainly everyone has their favorites. And isn't it nice that Ice Dance is getting so much love we DISAGREE on which of the amazing teams on the U.S. Dance roaster we should love the most?

    The Shibutanis don't get much love on the boards, but I like them a lot for their personalities and I do like their sleek and clean dance style, though some find that boring. As I said earlier, I think it's great that both I/K and the Shibs have been able to jump nicely into the senior scene. Can't really say the same for the other junior couples have followed them.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyLex View Post
    ^ I/K's basic skating skills are so much better than B/S's, though, given Bobrova's issues with posture and lines. And I/K have far better expressions too.
    So on paper they should be Russia's #1. Why they are not by now... well, the not working hard enough theory is the only one that makes sense.

    At this point, I would have both Russian teams behind all of P/B, C/L and W/P. About the Shibs, well, hard to tell whether they are USA's #3. C/B are not impressive at all this year and I think Maia and Alex could actually have a shot at beating them this year. This would make I/K only fall behind US #2, if that makes anyone feel better :P
    Either way I/K finishing a lowly 4th in a grand prix event and even losing to the Shibutanis again will gain them absolutely no ground on even a slumping B/S with bad programs this year. At this very moment I/K are still nowhere near taking over as Russian #1, even with the relatively poor start to the season for B/S.

    I do agree B/S are behind W/P and P/B at this point. C/L I am not as sure of. Their showing at this event was fairly mediocre, and did not follow up well on their Skate America showing. B/S have also hardly ever lost to C/L, unlike W/P and P/B who they lost to many times in the past.

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    Why could I/k never even beat b/s in one segment of a Russian nationals competition? Not even if b/s were being beaten by I/k outside of Russia and when both made the gpf? because the judges and federation never wanted to give them the title of Russian Dance champions because of the work ethic and training deficiencies! They could never be trusted with Russia number one! Imagine a Russia number one that gets 16th in Tes at a worlds like I/k did! Embarrassing.

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