Asada's 3F, 3FLutz, 3T & 2Lo: underrotated or not | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Asada's 3F, 3FLutz, 3T & 2Lo: underrotated or not

TheCzar

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Some people have too much time on their hands. Get a life.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
All of Mao Asada's "triple" jumps in that LP were underrotated.

Someone posted a video on YouTube that has the slow motion replays of some of her jumps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ZT9odZUsE

From that video, I see 3A<, 3F<-2Lo, 3Lz<(e), 2a-3t<<, 3F<-2lo-2lo

The best you can say about Mao Asada's so-called "triple" jumps is that they are all landed directly on that 1/4 short mark (if you are generous). None of her "triples" are landed backwards.

The JSF is politicking hard for Asada to get a gold medal in Sochi, and the ISU has clearly instructed their technical panels to overlook Asada's chronic underrotaton of her "triple" jumps. It really makes me angry to see the treatment that Mirai Nagasu gets vs. Mao Asada, when Mao isn't rotating her jumps any more than Mirai is. Mao is just the media darling in the ISU's biggest market, so technical panels turn a blind eye to her underrotated jumps.
Mao Asada's scoring is really making a mockery of this sport. It's not fair that her competitors are being dinged for underrotations while she gets a free pass. Reward her for her skating skills, spins and steps, but stop pretending she can rotate triple jumps. She can't, and the fact that her cheated triples are being ratified is a disgrace.

Prove it. You can not go around making baseless accusations like that , because if that is so true how do you explain her getting ur calls before. what happened? JSF only started politicking for her during this event.
 

David21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Some people have too much time on their hands. Get a life.


And you aparently have too much time on your hands to reply to a topic you are apparently not interested in. :rolleye:
Underrotating jumps is not a technicality.
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
I can only imagine how hard other skaters work to get that rotations in. Under-rotations are not some minor issue, and just because it's confusing to a casual viewer does not mean the tech panel should give a pass to a skater who "looks" clean. Anyone whose any jump is more than a quarter short MUST be penalized accordingly with equal strict view.

Regarding the original post, yes, the flutz, the second toe loop at the end of a 2Axel and the second flip were so blatantly under-rotated on the landings that viewers with decently sharp eyes could detect them easily without any slo-mo or frame by frame images.

Both loops of the three-jump combo were URed too. The rest of her triples (2) and the first 2loop were borderline rotated.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Not a good enough camera angle on the 3Toe to know for sure. The jump landed right at the 1/4 turn mark, if it took off at the "normal" spot. There might have been extra pre-rotation, though, and I can't see because her other foot is in the way on the NHK video feed.

The first Flip was definitely fine. Lutz was totally borderline, but give benefit of the doubt. I will say, though, that at Skate America she deserved a < call on the Lutz and didn't get it.

Second Flip is very questionable. Would probably still give benefit of the doubt, though. It's the very tippy top of her toepick that is touching down just before the 1/4 turn mark here, and calling based on that is unfair. It was the same story with her < call on the Triple Axel...I would have given her credit there.

I suspect her 3Toe was the most underrotated of all these jumps, but there's no way of knowing without a different angle.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The JSF is politicking hard for Asada to get a gold medal in Sochi, and the ISU has clearly instructed their technical panels to overlook Asada's chronic underrotaton of her "triple" jumps. It really makes me angry to see the treatment that Mirai Nagasu gets vs. Mao Asada, when Mao isn't rotating her jumps any more than Mirai is. Mao is just the media darling in the ISU's biggest market, so technical panels turn a blind eye to her underrotated jumps.

I think Mirai's URs are slightly more noticeable but I agree that she never gets the benefit of the doubt. However, the person who made the YouTube slow-motion video of Mao's NHK jumps was overly harsh. None of the jumps were <<. Mostly everything looked right at 1/4 turn short and could have gone either way.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I think the only call that was questionable that I think she got a pass on was the 2A-3T. That could have been called < b/c it was more than a quarter short, but just under 1/2 a turn short.

Other than that, the rest of the jumps were borderline. Everything seemed to be landed right at the quarter turn mark and could have gone either way. The caller was feeling generous that day and gave her the benefit of the doubt, which I think she deserved considering how well she skated. I thought she was wonderful.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The caller was definitely generous, especially with the 2A-3T, but obviously she should have won anyways and at NHK she's prone to getting the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure the makers of this thread and Mao bashers could list their favourite skaters who have received favours and the benefit of the doubt on many an occasion when it comes to URs/GOE. It's not right, but maybe complain about it when it actually is of significance.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
It's not right, but maybe complain about it when it actually is of significance.


Exactly. It's not like 5 or 6 points would have made a difference in the outcome of this competition. Mao had nearly a 10 point lead over Elena coming into the FS.

Some people just like to complain I guess...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Some people just like to complain I guess...

Since UR/flutz scrutiny came into effect, people are going absolutely crazy about them. Like the smear campaigns and over-analytical criticism is astounding. It's like, relax people... just enjoy the skating. :)
 

David21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
It's not right, but maybe complain about it when it actually is of significance.


If it's not right (which you apparently admit), then people should be free to comlain about it. This is a figure skating forum after all.
Even though I admit ONE thread about this topic would be enough. :)
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Mao can only hope that Shin Amano isn't the technical caller at the Olympics!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
If it's not right (which you apparently admit), then people should be free to comlain about it. This is a figure skating forum after all.
Even though I admit ONE thread about this topic would be enough. :)

Yes, it's the barrage of bashing that is really uncalled for.

I mean, it's rather unfortunate that recent threads have been primarily bashing skaters. Get pissed with the judges... the thread should be about calling out URs in general, not just Mao's.

That being said, even if Mao completely rotated every jump, you can bet people would find something else to criticize her for. :rolleye:

szidon, who are your favourite skaters? I'm sure we could find examples of them getting favourable calls from the judges.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
I mean, it's rather unfortunate that recent threads have been primarily bashing skaters. Get pissed with the judges... the thread should be about calling out URs in general, not just Mao's.

No top ladies skaters underotating her jumps like Mao. Who close to her is Wagner but even Wagner rotating her 3F+3T combo better than Mao's jumps. Even If we open a general underrotation thread we will talk about Mao I think. Russians, Gold, Kostner, Suzuki, Kim, Osmond and Marchei's jumping technique looks fine to me.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
No top ladies skaters underotating her jumps like Mao. Who close to her is Wagner but even Wagner rotating her 3F+3T combo better than Mao's jumps. Even If we open a general underrotation thread we will talk about Mao I think. Russians, Gold, Kostner, Suzuki, Kim, Osmond and Marchei's jumping technique looks fine to me.

Murakami, Suzuki, Mao, Wagner, the Russians, and Kostner have all had under-rotated jumps in recent memory, and some have benefited (e.g. Kostner in her SP at Worlds last year). There are also examples on the men's side (e.g. Takahashi's quad in his NHK SP) where URs have happened and the judges have given the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly what is the purpose of the thread then? Pointing out that at a competition in Japan, Mao Asada receives favours from the judges? Shocker!

I'm saying that the conversation should be directed to encompass all skaters and attack the actual problem which is the judges/tech spec.

Pointing out that in NHK trophy Mao had a slew of URs that weren't called is a moot point anyways because she might land them perfectly rotated in her next competition. NHK was hers the moment she stepped on the ice; hopefully, in the next competition, the tech specialist is more wary. Bear in mind that, given who she is, it would be very unlikely for the tech specialist to review every single one of her jumping passes with utmost scrutiny.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Russians, Gold, Kostner, Suzuki, Kim, Osmond and Marchei's jumping technique looks fine to me.

Personally I feel like Gracie got a favorable call at NHK on her 3L. That was definitely a borderline call that went her way.

Same thing with Carolina's missed 3T-3T in the SP at worlds last year...that second jump looked < to me but she got credit for the full rotation.

Sometimes the top skaters get favorable calls. It's not fair but it's not like this is some new development...
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Personally I feel like Gracie got a favorable call at NHK on her 3L. That was definitely a borderline call that went her way.

Same thing with Carolina's missed 3T-3T in the SP at worlds last year...that second jump looked < to me but she got credit for the full rotation.

Sometimes the top skaters get favorable calls. It's not fair but it's not like this is some new development...

Two examples in one year. At the NHK SP and LP, Mao's almost all jumps look underrotated but didn't get <. This is why I said technique.

Bear in mind that, given who she is, it would be very unlikely for the tech specialist to review every single one of her jumping passes with utmost scrutiny.

Who technical panel should review then? I think she is the one with all those turning on the ice, early toe pick touches before the full blade and double footed jumps, If they don't review her jumps, I don't know who they will.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Yes, it's the barrage of bashing that is really uncalled for.

I mean, it's rather unfortunate that recent threads have been primarily bashing skaters. Get pissed with the judges... the thread should be about calling out URs in general, not just Mao's.

That being said, even if Mao completely rotated every jump, you can bet people would find something else to criticize her for.

Thank you. I even agree some of Mao's jumps were questionable and unrightly not called, and that her overall FS score was too high (it was in SA too...). It's the exaggerated negativity towards Mao as a skater and person, not the criticizing of her scores or jumps, that gets so tiresome...
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I dont care what the haters say. No one will make me or Bully me into saying Mao jumps were underotated because I am not a technical caller. I will give this outrage some credibility if this was about all of the skaters who underotate theri jump, but single in out Mao= Hating.

Please spare me the objectivity meme because fans of other skaters dont go around having to admit the weaknessess of their favorite skater. There have been threads in this board declaring a skater superior by her fans and that thread was up for a long time.

Also spare me the meme that Mao was overscored because if want to talk about overscorig the judges have been very generous with Many skaters.

So its ok for people in forum to spread false information about Mao and her federation buying her score but her fans are not allowed to say something nice about her?
 
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