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Thread: Asada: 2010 v.s. 2013/14 Personal Growth Going to Sochi

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Yes she did, she did in the absence of Yuna, Carolina, Miki, Joannie on the scene. Kanako proved to be unreliable, Akiko can never be a threat at home anyway. So she faced a bunch of newbies on the scene + Ashley Wagner. Home events are about containment as well as propping someone up. I am not debating her wins by default of lack of strong field, but I do believe false inflated bench marking and lenient calls create somewhat false sense of magic improvements her ubers are claiming. Luckily you can't mess with facts, historical legacy and relative judging, and importantly public opinions beyond this board, like member of the press, sport veterans who will certainly be talking behind the scenes.
    So you agree she deserved her wins against weak competition and everyone else agrees that the scores were slightly high? What is the controversy? In the end, what matters is the win, right? GOE, PCS, and credit for borderline jumps are always going to vary. I've long since given up expecting the judges to conform to some magic "reference state" that remains consistent between competitions after seeing the discrepancy between the judging of Mao's Vancouver and Torino free skates. Didn't you claim to have given up long ago, I don't know, 3 times already? You'd think that just saying "overscored" is fine without bringing up conspiracies. Judges can be influenced by reputation without being under the JSF's payroll.

    And obviously there has been improvement since late 2010, when Asada fell on 2 triple flips, did a single flutz and Axel and a waltz jump and landed a Sal and Loop of dubious quality at NHK Trophy. We can even do a comparison that's not silly/doesn't have laughably low standards: at Vancouver, Mao was attempting 4 different kinds of triples. In her Vancouver FS, she landed 4 credited triples total. At Worlds 2013, she was attempting 6 different kinds, and she landed 6. A flutz and a stepout yes, but still 6 different jumps of 3 revolutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    So who else among all the ladies attempts the 3A except Mao? If she does not skate for Japan, say skate for Haiti, do you honestly think the rules would have changed to the extreme and as extensive as it did? So much so the technical judging now considered a 2footed 3A as qualified pass? Why not make 2footed landing the new acceptable standards for 3Lutz, 3 FLip, 3Loop, 3T as well? For it certainly benefit all the skaters. What should the new standard be now? Lets have all tiny pre 15 Russian/Chinese/US babies 'going for' 4T, since apparently 2 fted versions and generous calls boarder lined on 1/4 can be accepted now otherwise it seems hardly fair. And why be so gender bias, lets do it with the Men too and just watch their score improve as much as Mao. All those B level skaters who been marked down for 2 footed landings, sooo sorry, you've all been wronged!! Why bother with perfect technique. Complain to the coaches and judges now!! It seems utterly ridiculous, where will it end?
    What? A 2 footed 3A was always considered a qualified pass under CoP. This isn't anything new. In 2007, Mao won a World silver with a 2-footed 3A. Obviously 2 footing is not the acceptable standard since your GOE is going to be negative. And borderline 1/4-turn short jumps have always been considered qualified. That was where people drew the line for downgrades. Over 1/4 turn short was a downgrade, and now it is a <. If you haven't forgotten, her Olympics and Worlds 3A-2T combinations had the 3A right at the boundary too. Are you suffering from dementia? Why all this outrage now and not back then? The greater leniency doesn't only benefit Mao. It would've benefited Mirai at 2010 US Nationals. And why doesn't it benefit Mirai now? Obviously because she's too much of a mess for leniency to do her good. In 2010-2011, Mao was frequently too much of a mess as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    So you haven't answered my 'melodramatic' question, or rather you imply

    A) She doesn't like getting high scores when she didn't skate as well as she could have. (So you admit it was wrong to receive high score when Mao could have skated better)
    B) You doubt she was disappointed about the score. (Yes, I doubt anyone would be disappointed receiving high scores. Gotta love those home cooking baby!)

    even when a skater has consistently only demonstrate 4 triples at 50% failure rate in this sport with literally little impact on her scoring; without a 3/3, continues to flutz, and apparent much hyped 3A on 2 foot landing prone to under rotation. As great as her improvements on footwork, better practices doing the same Mao program every year end, I don't see how her recent improvements should be enough to compensate for her deteriorating jumps and surpass her previous historical Olympic performance or goes anywhere near it. It might be the reason herself is very aware of this and explained her recent announcement of 2 x 3A in her FS. The fact general inflation are made necessary to accommodate these new 'trends' makes a complete mockery of this sport on what it used to mean with a 200+ performance. I am clearly not the only one think so, just ask seasoned watchers like Phil Hersh who continues to tweet about them.

    True worthy performance that justifies high score will have commentators/journalists/skating community gushes from world wide press without biases or agendas. Those who stays largely silent, and even makes disagreeable remarks among veterans in the industry (commentators, journalists, coaches) perhaps indicate where the true value of the numeric lie, much hot air about nothing until the real test at the Olympics.
    4 triples at 50% failure rate, you make me laugh. 4 triples at 50% failure rate is 2 triples. This year, has Mao been going for 4-triple LPs and instead doing 2-triple LPs? It's fine to be disappointed in the success rate of Mao's triples, but you needn't exaggerate. Her "deteriorating jumps" are really not much worse than the state they were in pre-Vancouver, where she didn't even bother with the flutz or the Salchow, and she got every Loop downgraded in her 2009 TEB LP. For someone who is so harsh on Mao this year, you're certainly quite easy on the 2009/2010 Mao with a Flip and Axel which might not have lasted her another year had she not retooled them. And for the remainder, you can just read above about the scoring.

    Too long, didn't read? Here's the important part. Unless she does 8 clean triples, Mao Asada will not win in Sochi. I simply refuse to believe it. So don't worry. No need to do this... conspiracy awareness campaign?

  2. #32
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    Don't really have a care about any specific skater's technical issues at this point- whether it's Mao or Yuna or Gracie or the russians, we can just argue endlessly in circles.
    But Mao did have to endure and deal with a personal tragedy that doesn't often happen to someone her age, her mother's illness and death.
    That no doubt had to have an effect on her skating for the past couple of years, plus she was reworking her jumps.
    But that she could endure this, and continue to skate at the top level of this sport (perhaps submerging herself into it as a dedication to her mom, just a thought) is a testament to her character. Actually, it's a testament to anyone who had to endure a family crisis or tragedy. Some skating quibbles aside, Mao is simply a beautiful person. That is all.

  3. #33
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    Her triple axel were perfect and consistent at 2010. I don't know why she change her Technic, her triple axel in 2013 are not great and inconsistent (always two foot landing or fall)
    She have regressed and was in better shape at Vancouver for the triple axel.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by guanchi View Post
    Don't really have a care about any specific skater's technical issues at this point- whether it's Mao or Yuna or Gracie or the russians, we can just argue endlessly in circles.
    But Mao did have to endure and deal with a personal tragedy that doesn't often happen to someone her age, her mother's illness and death.
    That no doubt had to have an effect on her skating for the past couple of years, plus she was reworking her jumps.
    But that she could endure this, and continue to skate at the top level of this sport (perhaps submerging herself into it as a dedication to her mom, just a thought) is a testament to her character. Actually, it's a testament to anyone who had to endure a family crisis or tragedy. Some skating quibbles aside, Mao is simply a beautiful person. That is all.
    Thank you. I for one am glad Mao is still skating after enduring disappointment after disappointment from 2010 to 2012: the slow, painful process of bringing back her jumps, showing apparent progress by 4CC only to get knocked nearly back to zero a month later by the Tohoku earthquake in 2011, losing her mother after a prolonged illness later that year, landing zero out of 48 attempted triple Axels at Worlds in Nice. She might not be the cleanest or the most flawless, but she is certainly tough.

    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    Her triple axel were perfect and consistent at 2010. I don't know why she change her Technic, her triple axel in 2013 are not great and inconsistent (always two foot landing or fall)
    She have regressed and was in better shape at Vancouver for the triple axel.
    In one of the other 8 billions threads about Mao, everyone is pointing out that in Vancouver, it was the other jumps that let her down, not the Axel. I'm not too fussed about mistakes on the Axel as long as she lands everything else.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    Her triple axel were perfect and consistent at 2010. I don't know why she change her Technic, her triple axel in 2013 are not great and inconsistent (always two foot landing or fall)
    She have regressed and was in better shape at Vancouver for the triple axel.
    Her triple axels were not perfect in 2010. They were not even close to consistent. If anything, she consistently missed them all Grand Prix season, got it downgraded in the SP at Nationals and got it downgraded again in the 4CC SP.
    In fact, the Olympics were the only competition all season where Mao had all her triple axels ratified.

    She changed her technique because her old technique was getting close to 0 GOE. It had great pop, but no distance.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    Her triple axel were perfect and consistent at 2010. I don't know why she change her Technic, her triple axel in 2013 are not great and inconsistent (always two foot landing or fall)
    She have regressed and was in better shape at Vancouver for the triple axel.
    Mao has a chance definitely for Oly gold. There appears to be some key issues some within her control some not. If Yuna skates her best I do think Mao would also have to skate clean that includes no edges or UR's and the triple axel. Has Mao developed since 2010 - I am not sure about that BUT her jumps are still dubious - edges, technique, ur's. It appears she is trying to control her 3A so it isn't wild which is a smart move. Artistically i don't see her developing further. If the judges (tech experts) hit her hard she could be off the podium ala Mirai Nagasu. If Yuna makes a mistake or two Mao can win without a perfect performances. But she, Mao has so many issues that one would have thought been fixed by now or a clear decision. ie. the 3axels are clean and super consistent and she does one in combo and leaves out the lutz. The flip be super consistent and ensure she does two in thefs. She maximaizes her spin points. Yuna has wonderful flow and energy and musicality which will be hard to beat if mao isn't clean. i am sure Mao is trying her best but she has been relearning these jumps to clean up urs and edges for a while and sadly it hasn't happened as of yet. So what we have to hope for if you like Mao is the stars align.

  7. #37
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Of course, 'Asada XX Jump, underrotated?!' in multiple versions is fine, but hell forbid if there is a thread that's supposed to be positive about Mao. Positive things about Mao need to be taken to the Fan Feast Thread, which of course wouldn't count for every other skater.

    And btw, nobody said you're just allowed to hail Mao in this thread, it was just supposed to keep all the hate out. Which of course didn't work, since os168 needed to give one of these weird 'politik'-speeches again. GS is full of unneededhate these days, and it doesn't really make this a nice place to be at.
    Do you not realize the stupidity and childishness contained in the Original Post: coming to a general figure skating forum, creating a thread and banning various skating-related topics, such as jumps? You want positivity and cheerleading without the critiques, then a Fan Fest thread or an uber fan forum is far more appropriate and less inflammatory than whining about OMG haterZ!!!1!!11 If u don't keep it all nice and and praise-y, then ur a hater!! Whatever is going on with the poster obsessed with Mao's jumps/underrotations and making threads about them, it's clear that he/she is not the only one who thinks they are occurring with some lenient/lucky calls from the tech specialists and not every one of them = "hater".

    A whole slew of general figure skating fans have, in this thread, commented in some way about Mao's jumps. Oh nooo's, they broke the OP's rule! SLANDER! (Even though I think he means LIBEL!)

    As this poster said,
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I think a balanced discussion on her growth that doesn't include her jumping is not possible.
    ...and a balanced discussion is obviously not what some people want.

    It's even more hilarious when OP can't even be consistent:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    I personally believe that there's far too much unwarranted hate on Mao Asada this season. I also think that there has been a resounding agreement that her personal growth as a skater from Vancouver to now has been inspiring, impressive and promising. So, to cancel out the negative juju that some posters have decided to put out into the universe, I am starting to thread to talk about how far Mao has come since winning silver in 2010.

    To prevent things from going sour- because it's bound to and you know people will pounce, I'm banning the following points:
    - her jumps


    ...Asada has dealt with SO MUCH since Vancouver (losing her jumps


    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Asada grew as an artist in the first half of the 2010-2011 season. Since then it has mainly been about grabbing points with her. So, in sum total, she hasn't actually grown as an artist from what she showed in the 2007-2010 period. She has become a little better as a performer, maybe, but that's a separate thing and it doesn't really matter since she is saddled with poor choreography and doesn't have the artistic insight to do some of her own choreography, movement that comes directly from her own heart.
    She has grown artistically in her Exhibitions which have always best highlighted her abilities. Her Jupiter Ex was heartfelt and moving. Her improved speed and skating skills/step sequences have definitely increased the overall impact of her performances, as well. However, I agree with you in that her competition programs tend to be more about chasing points and achievements rather than expressing an artistic vision or purpose.

  8. #38
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    Hmm well if we are solely talking about her technical performance then 2010 Mao is better because her jumps were more solid at that time. But, if we are talking about presentation, her artistry has grown and her footwork has improved since 2010.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Mao has a chance definitely for Oly gold. There appears to be some key issues some within her control some not. If Yuna skates her best I do think Mao would also have to skate clean that includes no edges or UR's and the triple axel. Has Mao developed since 2010 - I am not sure about that BUT her jumps are still dubious - edges, technique, ur's. It appears she is trying to control her 3A so it isn't wild which is a smart move. Artistically i don't see her developing further. If the judges (tech experts) hit her hard she could be off the podium ala Mirai Nagasu. If Yuna makes a mistake or two Mao can win without a perfect performances. But she, Mao has so many issues that one would have thought been fixed by now or a clear decision. ie. the 3axels are clean and super consistent and she does one in combo and leaves out the lutz. The flip be super consistent and ensure she does two in thefs. She maximaizes her spin points. Yuna has wonderful flow and energy and musicality which will be hard to beat if mao isn't clean. i am sure Mao is trying her best but she has been relearning these jumps to clean up urs and edges for a while and sadly it hasn't happened as of yet. So what we have to hope for if you like Mao is the stars align.
    Doubt it. Mirai's problems are more than just UR's. She just hasn't been skating well for a long time, so her second mark has dropped. If Mao continues to skate well (consistent), I feel her score total would still be enough for a medal even with stricter calls. I also feel Olympics tend not to be a strictly judged event, kinda of like in Vancouver.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Doubt it. Mirai's problems are more than just UR's. She just hasn't been skating well for a long time, so her second mark has dropped. If Mao continues to skate well (consistent), I feel her score total would still be enough for a medal even with stricter calls. I also feel Olympics tend not to be a strictly judged event, kinda of like in Vancouver.
    Her second mark has actually increased (and deservedly so). Even with the errors at 2013 Worlds, her PCS in the FS was 68.41, a personal best.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Her second mark has actually increased (and deservedly so). Even with the errors at 2013 Worlds, her PCS in the FS was 68.41, a personal best.
    I was referring to Mirai since the poster above drew a comparison between her and Mao.

  12. #42
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Truth be told people can open what ever thread they want and limit the discussion to the topics they want to discuss. And people who do not find any topics in that thread that they agree or want to discuss could stay out of it. I am sorry, to deny there blind Mao hate in this forum is to not read it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colanboy View Post
    She changed her technique because her old technique was getting close to 0 GOE. It had great pop, but no distance.
    Now it is -2 GOE.

  14. #44
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    Mao's artistry has definitely grown! Not only in comparison to 2010, but do you remember her from 2006, when she was a jumping bean!

  15. #45
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys
    Do you not realize the stupidity and childishness contained in the Original Post: coming to a general figure skating forum, creating a thread and banning various skating-related topics, such as jumps?
    All threads are limited to certain topics. We have a few threads talking about Mao's jumps, so I don't get what's soppusedly so bad in creating a thread that's to aim at the other aspects of her skating, instead of talking about her jumps again. (With the topic being 2010 vs. 2013/14, I wouldn't have excluded her jumps, but whatever. It's not as if you wouldn't be free to talk about the jumps anyway).

    You want positivity and cheerleading without the critiques, then a Fan Fest thread or an uber fan forum is far more appropriate and less inflammatory than whining about OMG haterZ!!!1!!11 If u don't keep it all nice and and praise-y, then ur a hater!!
    Nope. I'm fine with people criticizing Mao or prefering other skaters, and you're exaggerated speech won't change that. The problem is that lately Mao has been getting an extra dose of over-scrutinization, and that is getting very tiresome. Do other 'underrotators' get threads opened up for their jumps? Constantly reduced their performances to '3 triples'-program or something, not including wrong edge jumps? And it's not too many skaters who supposedly are getting spoonfed by their federation.
    In this thread, we had someone saying she didn't grow as an artist from 2010 to now too, and did anyone start to cry hater? Nope. Because it's a valid opinion and a very different thing from being disrespectful.

    Whatever is going on with the poster obsessed with Mao's jumps/underrotations and making threads about them, it's clear that he/she is not the only one who thinks they are occurring with some lenient/lucky calls from the tech specialists and not every one of them = "hater".
    Oh, you won't believe it - but I know that. Because I think some of those calls were too generous too, and I already said after SA that Mao's FS score was a tad too high. And I'm pretty sure i'm not a hater.

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