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Thread: Asada: 2010 v.s. 2013/14 Personal Growth Going to Sochi

  1. #16
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    I admire Mao's courage and strong will for trying to correct her jumping technics after puberty and keeping on competing continuously this past four years.
    I think she will not be as good as she wants to be on every jump but she is a complete package now. The improvements I have found this year from her skating besides jumps are her speed, command on ice, arm movements and her feeling for the music.

  2. #17
    Adiós Melon's Avatar
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    She didn't grow as a skater, her federation spoonfed her even more.

  3. #18
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Asada grew as an artist in the first half of the 2010-2011 season. Since then it has mainly been about grabbing points with her. So, in sum total, she hasn't actually grown as an artist from what she showed in the 2007-2010 period. She has become a little better as a performer, maybe, but that's a separate thing and it doesn't really matter since she is saddled with poor choreography and doesn't have the artistic insight to do some of her own choreography, movement that comes directly from her own heart.

  4. #19
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco
    The response to this thread by the usual suspects is so predictable--yes, I'm talking about you, os168, Moment, EricRohmer, etc.
    And Melon showed up just in time too.

    Of course, 'Asada XX Jump, underrotated?!' in multiple versions is fine, but hell forbid if there is a thread that's supposed to be positive about Mao. Positive things about Mao need to be taken to the Fan Feast Thread, which of course wouldn't count for every other skater.

    And btw, nobody said you're just allowed to hail Mao in this thread, it was just supposed to keep all the hate out. Which of course didn't work, since os168 needed to give one of these weird 'politik'-speeches again. GS is full of unneededhate these days, and it doesn't really make this a nice place to be at.

  5. #20
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    Asada has certainly grown as a skater. I still think Kostner and Kim are better artists, but there is a vast improvement in the intricacy of Mao's programs and her level of performance. She now seems to "get it", and her musicality is much better. Unfortunately her jumping ability has suffered compared to her as a youngster but obviously that often happens. Too bad about Torino - she would have dominated given the level of skating there... but it's far better in the long run because she's made great strides to her development as an actual skater. Her experience will help her in Sochi, and she has a PCS cushion that should guarantee her a medal, I just question if her jumping ability will be impeccable, which will be necessary for her to win.

  6. #21
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    In my opinion Mao has improved in many ways and I love her skating, but I think she is behind Kim and Kostner what comes to her artistic skills. I predict that whoever of these ladies wins in Sochi, she won't be winning with a clear margin, not like in Vancouver.

  7. #22
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And Melon showed up just in time too.

    Of course, 'Asada XX Jump, underrotated?!' in multiple versions is fine, but hell forbid if there is a thread that's supposed to be positive about Mao. Positive things about Mao need to be taken to the Fan Feast Thread, which of course wouldn't count for every other skater.

    And btw, nobody said you're just allowed to hail Mao in this thread, it was just supposed to keep all the hate out. Which of course didn't work, since os168 needed to give one of these weird 'politik'-speeches again. GS is full of unneededhate these days, and it doesn't really make this a nice place to be at.

    I will be mad too if the skater I "dislike"was dominating the GP series. The haters are hating more cause Mao is winning!!!

    The double standards of some people here are laughable.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And Melon showed up just in time too.

    Of course, 'Asada XX Jump, underrotated?!' in multiple versions is fine, but hell forbid if there is a thread that's supposed to be positive about Mao. Positive things about Mao need to be taken to the Fan Feast Thread, which of course wouldn't count for every other skater.

    And btw, nobody said you're just allowed to hail Mao in this thread, it was just supposed to keep all the hate out. Which of course didn't work, since os168 needed to give one of these weird 'politik'-speeches again. GS is full of unneededhate these days, and it doesn't really make this a nice place to be at.
    Name one thing I've said is hateful.

    You may disagree with my views, it is another to continue to brand me as a hater when I have always been among the firsts to give her praises where she deserves them, such as her Jupiter program, and how an early exhibition fan clip of her SP hadn't had the right dubbed track (I was the first person on this forum give her the benefit of the doubt) and suggested she should be more musical than what the video suggests. That clip has since been rectified with the correct track and proved I was right.

    Politiks matters in this sport. It is more weird to me you continue to blindly worship a skater so much you refuse to see the whole picture.

    To put it simply - answer me this:

    Forget about the rules.

    Do you think her NHK personal bests with many questionable UR deserve a higher score and is objectively BETTER than her historical Vancouver performances with the 3 x fully rotated 3As? Would her performance here beat Joannie at the Olympics? I'd be very interested to ask Mao this myself, and would be very curious what her heart on her chest answer would be without a PR agent.

  9. #24
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Mao already had great artistry but she has become even more musical , her step sequence in her LP is to die for love it. She also has exquisite ballerina movements in the SP.
    The op did ask us to try to ignore the haters, I know is hard to do but maybe if we don't engage them they will post in the many hate Mao threads.

  10. #25
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168
    Politiks matters in this sport. It is more weird to me you continue to blindly worship a skater so much you refuse to see the whole picture.
    I don't think you know what I do or don't do - worshipping isn't generally my thing. Yes, there are reputation and politics factoring in, this is a judged sport after all. But by far not to the amount you're always proclaiming, and definitly not just for the skaters you want to pin the blame on. Talking about how all this rule changes were only there for Mao. Or, if I remember correctly, you were all 'Yuzuru's win over Daisuke was all politics' after last seasons japanese nationals (with some 'it was obvious through the whole GP series the JSF would play it like that' or whatever, wasn't it?). I just think your childish 'whole picture' of conspiracy theories doesn't exist.

    Do you think her NHK personal bests with many questionable UR deserve a higher score and is objectively BETTER than her historical Vancouver performances with the 3 x fully rotated 3As? Would her performance here beat Joannie at the Olympics? I'd be very interested to ask Mao this myself, and would be very curious what her heart on her chest answer would be without a PR agent.
    Oh gosh, what an overdramatic way to put that. It's obvious looking at Mao's face: she doesn't like getting this high scores when she didn't skate as well as she could have. And I doubt she was disappointed about the score.
    And do you think in 2010 we would have seen so many high scores in general? Kostner scored a very high score (even a PB?) at 2013 worlds too with a fall and a popped triple. Do you think so many women would have scored 69+ (near 70) in the SP if clean, like Ashley and Gracie did? The scores went up in general, so there's no use comparing Mao's 2013 NHK score to 2010. But I guess this isn't a good 'whole picture', it just doesn't fit into conspiracy land.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And do you think in 2010 we would have seen so many high scores in general? Kostner scored a very high score (even a PB?) at 2013 worlds too with a fall and a popped triple. Do you think so many women would have scored 69+ (near 70) in the SP if clean, like Ashley and Gracie did? The scores went up in general, so there's no use comparing Mao's 2013 NHK score to 2010. But I guess this isn't a good 'whole picture', it just doesn't fit into conspiracy land.
    I remember back in 2010 it was hard to get 65 plus for the PCS. Now getting in the low to mid 60s seem to be the average (at least for top 10 skaters). Artistry is subjective; it really depends on what type of style you prefer. For me, her Ballade Ex and Jupiter showed her growth as an artist. There were seasons that were hard to watch her in competitions especially as her fan, but for these two programs alone, I am glad she continued after Vancouver.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Do you think her NHK personal bests with many questionable UR deserve a higher score and is objectively BETTER than her historical Vancouver performances with the 3 x fully rotated 3As? Would her performance here beat Joannie at the Olympics? I'd be very interested to ask Mao this myself, and would be very curious what her heart on her chest answer would be without a PR agent.
    To be fair, Mao is skating much better at this point in her Olypmic season than 2010, when her GP placements were 2nd and 5th. She didn't position herself to win gold in Vancouver whereas she is doing so now.

  13. #28
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    Asada 2014 is better than Asada 2010 by a wide margin.

    Here are the noticeable improvements
    1. skating skills
    2. speed
    3. footwork
    4. Salchow, 2A-3T
    5. performance

    Noticeable regression
    1. Spins. Used to have better looking spins.
    2. 3As used to be clean
    3. lightness in her skate
    4. loop isn't as effortless and easy

    Same
    1. flutz
    2. flip

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To be fair, Mao is skating much better at this point in her Olypmic season than 2010, when her GP placements were 2nd and 5th. She didn't position herself to win gold in Vancouver whereas she is doing so now.
    Yes she did, she did in the absence of Yuna, Carolina, Miki, Joannie on the scene. Kanako proved to be unreliable, Akiko can never be a threat at home anyway. So she faced a bunch of newbies on the scene + Ashley Wagner. Home events are about containment as well as propping someone up. I am not debating her wins by default of lack of strong field, but I do believe false inflated bench marking and lenient calls create somewhat false sense of magic improvements her ubers are claiming. Luckily you can't mess with facts, historical legacy and relative judging, and importantly public opinions beyond this board, like member of the press, sport veterans who will certainly be talking behind the scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    I don't think you know what I do or don't do - worshipping isn't generally my thing. Yes, there are reputation and politics factoring in, this is a judged sport after all. But by far not to the amount you're always proclaiming, and definitly not just for the skaters you want to pin the blame on. Talking about how all this rule changes were only there for Mao. Or, if I remember correctly, you were all 'Yuzuru's win over Daisuke was all politics' after last seasons japanese nationals (with some 'it was obvious through the whole GP series the JSF would play it like that' or whatever, wasn't it?). I just think your childish 'whole picture' of conspiracy theories doesn't exist.

    Oh gosh, what an overdramatic way to put that. It's obvious looking at Mao's face: she doesn't like getting this high scores when she didn't skate as well as she could have. And I doubt she was disappointed about the score.
    And do you think in 2010 we would have seen so many high scores in general? Kostner scored a very high score (even a PB?) at 2013 worlds too with a fall and a popped triple. Do you think so many women would have scored 69+ (near 70) in the SP if clean, like Ashley and Gracie did? The scores went up in general, so there's no use comparing Mao's 2013 NHK score to 2010. But I guess this isn't a good 'whole picture', it just doesn't fit into conspiracy land.
    So who else among all the ladies attempts the 3A except Mao? If she does not skate for Japan, say skate for Haiti, do you honestly think the rules would have changed to the extreme and as extensive as it did? So much so the technical judging now considered a 2footed 3A as qualified pass? Why not make 2footed landing the new acceptable standards for 3Lutz, 3 FLip, 3Loop, 3T as well? For it certainly benefit all the skaters. What should the new standard be now? Lets have all tiny pre 15 Russian/Chinese/US babies 'going for' 4T, since apparently 2 fted versions and generous calls boarder lined on 1/4 can be accepted now otherwise it seems hardly fair. And why be so gender bias, lets do it with the Men too and just watch their score improve as much as Mao. All those B level skaters who been marked down for 2 footed landings, sooo sorry, you've all been wronged!! Why bother with perfect technique. Complain to the coaches and judges now!! It seems utterly ridiculous, where will it end?

    Yes I remember the thread where Yuzuru won over Daisuke where I've attribute to federation politics AND poor judging (you left that judging part out. Federation politics will always be there, good judging would being cool headed enough to make the right call based on what happened on the ice ON the day, despite the reputation and despite the politics), when Daisuke had among the best skates of his life (admittedly mediocre choreography ) and Yuzuru had a poor outing and won by the crazy inflated PCS boosts over one season that someone like Chan took 2 or 3 years to earn them with superior skating skills and wider range of work. The judgement was wrong then and I still stand by my view today and tomorrow. To have the federation / official stand behind a skater over another has proven to distort rankings time and time again. Mao and Akiko over NHK last year was another prime example. (Please note I have never blamed the skater, but the judging, or particularly the funny goings that may influence the judging.) This happened at other competitions too, e.g last year's US nationals, and Johnny Weir's scoring at Vancouver being another instance. No conspiracy necessary, there are enough historical data to back up this trend.

    So you haven't answered my 'melodramatic' question, or rather you imply

    A) She doesn't like getting high scores when she didn't skate as well as she could have. (So you admit it was wrong to receive high score when Mao could have skated better)
    B) You doubt she was disappointed about the score. (Yes, I doubt anyone would be disappointed receiving high scores. Gotta love those home cooking baby!)

    even when a skater has consistently only demonstrate 4 triples at 50% failure rate in this sport with literally little impact on her scoring; without a 3/3, continues to flutz, and apparent much hyped 3A on 2 foot landing prone to under rotation. As great as her improvements on footwork, better practices doing the same Mao program every year end, I don't see how her recent improvements should be enough to compensate for her deteriorating jumps and surpass her previous historical Olympic performance or goes anywhere near it. It might be the reason herself is very aware of this and explained her recent announcement of 2 x 3A in her FS. The fact general inflation are made necessary to accommodate these new 'trends' makes a complete mockery of this sport on what it used to mean with a 200+ performance. I am clearly not the only one think so, just ask seasoned watchers like Phil Hersh who continues to tweet about them.

    True worthy performance that justifies high score will have commentators/journalists/skating community gushes from world wide press without biases or agendas. Those who stays largely silent, and even makes disagreeable remarks among veterans in the industry (commentators, journalists, coaches) perhaps indicate where the true value of the numeric lie, much hot air about nothing until the real test at the Olympics.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Noticeable regression
    1. Spins. Used to have better looking spins.
    2. 3As used to be clean
    3. lightness in her skate
    4. loop isn't as effortless and easy
    5. Spirals. Used to have great spirals in every program. There should be a monument of her perfect fan spiral. RIP, Mao's Level 4 Spirals.

    Edit: Forget that. Don't rest in peace. Come back, Mao's Level 4 spirals! Get with the programs for GPF!

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